bursaries... would this piss you off?

Mollieflanders I don't pay for one of my DS's education because I live in a dire catchment area I have the counties top performing school on my doorstep or because I believe that private schooling will confer all kind of advantages. I'm also not paying for good exam results in the case of his school over 50% got A*s at Pre U or the fact that every year between 30-40% go onto to Oxbridge and an ever increasing number to the Ivy League because the Ivy league apart I accept that my DS could get the same results in a state school. And it's not breathtaking mediaeval buildings acres of playing fields a fantastic standard of pastoral care and the opportunity my DS has to peruse his chosen sports 6 days a week without me having to drive him least 60 miles to do or the jargon free conversations I can have with the staff, the access to the art room on Sunday afternoon, numerous concert and regular plays etc. All these things are great but ultimately what I'm paying for is the level of intellectual stimulation that just does not exist in the state sector. I'm not just talking about in lessons I'm talking about an all pervaiding ethos.
I accept that not all independent schools are like this or that all children thrive in this kind of environment but IME until you actually experienced first hand what this actually means then you have no idea how big the gulf between state and private is.

Mollieflanders I don't pay for one of my DS's education because I live in a dire catchment area I have the counties top performing school on my doorstep or because I believe that private schooling will confer all kind of advantages. I'm also not paying for good exam results in the case of his school over 50% got A*s at Pre U or the fact that every year between 30-40% go onto to Oxbridge and an ever increasing number to the Ivy because the Ivy league apart I acce

That's awesome Blu, don't you wish they could all be like that...

You know it is so ironic, I grew up in a healthy state school system (Canada, at risk of outing myself) where there were very very few "private" schools. Plus I have always considered myself to be quite a social liberal and in theory I was always sort of against the idea of independent schools, without having thought about it too much pre-DC IYKWIM.

Now look at me. My DDs go to an independent, fee-paying school - and now I work in one!!!!

When I was looking at schools for DD1, who is now in Year 3, it was pretty bloody obvious pretty bloody quickly that our local state primaries were dire and we would have to go independent. Funny how your ideals change when it is your own DC's involved. I get really defensive about it sometimes. Not about to quit my job though either... such a hypocrite....

Betelgeuse, that's so often true.

However, I live in a non-leafy, non-conservation area catchment of an outstanding primary and an excellent comp where most of the catchment is social housing and housing prices are lower than many other parts of our illustrious borough - Lambeth!

Is it an area considered 'desirable' by many MNers? no. Both schools have factors which I often see viewed with extreme suspicion on MN - high number of children from deprived backgrounds, high level of children with SSOL, majority not white.... it's a happy school, has great standards, has a high VA score as well as high 'actual' scores.
There are other schools with far higher levels of deprivation (on average) which also do extremely well on VA scores, and are 'outstanding' schools - but many parents prefer schools with lower VA scores and a lower ofsted, in high priced housing areas, because they feel the kind of child fits their idea of a good school, and they only look at the aggregated scores, which reflect the type of child who goes, not necessarily the education!.

I was state school educated and had far more grief for not having lots of money as have my sisters children at state schools.
My DH was at a top public school on a scholarship and never had any problems with having very little money, in fact he said that the ones who did get teased were the conspicuous consumption types, think lots of expensive cars etc.

mollie can you really not think of any reaons why some families might not be able to move into the catchment of a good school?

Go on. Let your imagination run riot.

"the sheer lengths some go to" - what, filling in a form? A PITA form, admittedly, but hardly comparable with moving house .

Surely applying for a bursary is less going to lengths than moving is anyway

Mollie- we did.
Still didn't cope with their needs. Moved again, suits dd but not ds1. I have nothing against state schools just thankful ds had this opportunity as he was being let down.

word, we're not even the richest at state school, not by a long chalk!

No, not little imagination. Just gobsmacked at the sheer lengths some go to. I do understand there are some shitty state schools so you could, yunno, move?

Our experience is much like NCIS. According to the Charity Commission website the school my ds goes to awarded 200 bursaries last year.Have just asked my ds and he says he has never mentioned his bursary at school and has no idea of anyone else who has one .

I'm going to C&P Mollies post every time someone starts bleating about state schools offering DC the opportunity to mix with all types .

I'm also going to C&P it to the students on a course I'm giving on just how little imagination some people have.

My DC's have been the poor ones at private schools and we did get burseries. They have never been teased nor have I felt uncomfortable at the school gates despite my 15 year old car and the DC's Asda trainers.
In fact ,my DD said one girl did get teased for her Jack Wills obsession. The others bought most of their clothes from charity shops, there seems to be competitive money saving rather than the other way round.

Word

Mollie you have answered your own argument - you have excellent state schools. Not everyone does. I'm sure they were a factor when you moved to where you live.

mollie it clearly matters a lot to you that you are perceived as top of the tree. So I can see why you have made the choices you have and why it would kill you not to be the richest at private school.

I'm quite happy for my kids to be the bright geeky kids in excellent state schools where there are lots of other bright, geeky kids.

To be fair, I am always incredulous at the lengths people go to to send their kids to private schools. I dont know whether this is because they liv ein dire catchments or because they perceive that private school will confer all kinds of advantages or whatever.
It's all very odd to me. We live rurally, my kids have ponies and skiiing trips and we have plenty of dosh to afford private school). Everyone we know is the same and everyone we know ( bar two people who make enormous financial sacrificies) uses the local excellent state schools. I genuinely don;t get it but then DH and I are Oxbridge from state schools

Ah LittleFrieda you are in danger of launching another independent ed. versus state argument. This is frequently battled out on MN both sides, believe they are right despite each putting forward coherent and well thought out points and there is little backing down on either side.

Why don't you send your children to a state school where it's free to everyone?

didofido the problem is that in this day and age wealth is so much more conspicuous than it was when I was at school. Jaw dropingly expensive lap tops, designer clothes and Rolex watches I'm afraid do pervade many independent schools

Being the poor kid in a "posh" school, is, IMHO, a lot better than being the bright geeky kid in a school with no culture of achievement and success, whether state or private, posh or not.

Yes. I was that child in a fairly dreadful comprehensive. My parents could have afforded private without it impacting hugely on their finances, but they didn't 'believe' in private school. I find the older I get the more resentful I am of their choice.

We were always towards the bottom end of the income spectrum in any school we were in - as others have said, there are lots of reasons people will tease/pick on you in any school, state or private, posh or not. Money, or lack of it, was never one in any school my 2 DBs or I were in, nor in my DCs' school (primary). I am sure there are nasty snobby schools where it is a divisive thing, but there are plenty where it isn't, and that is one of my filters for looking for a school for my DC - whether we need financial assistance or not is irrelevant - I would not want my DC in an atmosphere where people are judged on their parents wealth (or lack of it).

Being the poor kid in a "posh" school, is, IMHO, a lot better than being the bright geeky kid in a school with no culture of achievement and success, whether state or private, posh or not.

Bursaries are and should be highly confidential. Someone will always be unhappy otherwise.

I'm surprised that many feel the poor child at the posh school is made to feel it. The DD of a friend who was a SM on benefits or in very lowly paid for much of her daughter's childhood, was awarded a govt. assisted place (under the old scheme) at a famous, and expensive, girls' school. There were bitchy girls, of course, who told her she was ugly, had a big mouth etc etc as such girls will, but none ever sneered at her being poor. When the assisted place finished she got a school bursary from an even more famous co-ed boarding school where she had a great time in the 6th form