Tutoring in seondary schools

"You are obviously a very intelligent lady, it?s a shame you have to use insults and aggression to get your point across."

Actually, sarcasm is my usual weapon of choice.

"I can't say I'm a fan of "tricks" to pass the exams."

"Of course, if you are doing a subject where your career will not actually rely on a great deal of knowledge of your actual subject area (philosopy, ancient greek etc spring to mind) that is perhaps something else....."

I am arguing against the teaching of tricks to pass Maths (or English) exams (and charging £25 per hour for it). I trust that you would agree that a good understanding of Maths and English (upto Standard Grade / GCSE level) would be of lifetime value.

"I'm just saying, people who tutor should be paid a decent wage, why not?"

andisa, there is a big difference between a 'decent' wage and an exorbitant charge for a superficial service. I had asked some direct questions but unfortunately you didn't answer them:

So would you pay £25 an hour for tuition so that your child would get an A* rather than an A or B without tuition?

Would you pay £25 an hour for a 'professional' maths tutor to teach your child tricks to get an A without understanding the questions?

"You appear to be one of those people who need to blame others for their problems."

"I never felt that having 'superficial' knowledge of rock formations and what Jesus said and did has damaged me as a person in any way"

"But Cumber seems to be suggesting that people who can't afford a tutor are screwed."

"if you hire a tutor that doesn't add value AND you still keep him on then its YOUR fault if you don't get the results."

So a wasted £36 per hour x say 20 hours = £720 if DC FAILS to go from an A to A*?

Or is it on a 'no A* no fee' basis? One only know the FINAL result AFTER THE PERIOD OF TUITION.

I have been very clear in what I am saying: I am talking about Maths and English. Twisting the facts and not providing direct answers to direct questions is just a sign of losing the argument.

Cortina - At the risk of sounding like a Mutual Appreciation Society :) I totally agree with you too.

I can't say I'm a fan of "tricks" to pass the exams. The course I teach on at university is a course training people in an area where lives depend on them making the right judgement. I'd rather people training in those types of jobs don't have a superficial knowledge using "tricks" to pass the exams.

Of course, if you are doing a subject where your career will not actually rely on a great deal of knowledge of your actual subject area (philosopy, ancient greek etc spring to mind) that is perhaps something else.....

I know plenty with 'above average' children who use tutors -particularly in science and maths. Often they've come to help out with a specific weakness but have added so much value, they've stayed. I even know those who use tutors to supervise homework & try to instill a work ethic in their children.

I agree with Pushed in that so many here in the UK seem to believe you either have the intellect or you don't. Few seem to think intellect can grow or dramatically improve. IMO it often can. Sometimes what looks like innate talent to the school and others is often 'hidden practice' which has been going on for a number of years. I have a friend who has a couple of tutors, 3 days a week for 4 hours after school at her children's disposal (she has 4 children). Her children are seen as being outstanding by the school, they are delightful, curious and hardworking. She has the resources, so why not? Whichever child needs the support that afternoon after school sees the tutor. It seems to work for her and her children have exceeded all expectations to date.

PTTE, I am using my children as an example to explain my point that there is so much more to education than pure academics.

You are obviously a very intelligent lady, it?s a shame you have to use insults and aggression to get your point across.

Cumbernauldmathstutor, thank you for your post. I'm afraid I have to chuckle
as your ironic post name , it seems to bedevil your message.

If you read my posts, I'm not saying parents should or could afford tutors - I said sadly they help those who can afford them and it is a shame the pressure of gaining places at unis means so many affluent parents do feel need to fork out.

We do not disagree.

I'm just saying, people who tutor should be paid a decent wage, why not? Children's services should not be cheaper than other professional services. Many people who cannot afford things for their children do buy expensive cars - I feel some people have the wrong priorities over where they could add value to their lives

Bunbaker - I accept that home tutoring is not ideal but it is an option. But Cumber seems to be suggesting that people who can't afford a tutor are screwed.

I get paid what I am paid because of market forces. There are those who arent reluctant to tell me I am overpaid. Well, they are quite welcome to study for several years and then constantly retrain themselves every few years thereafter.

Frankly, I don't have much time for those who constantly bemoan the fact that others earn more than them. Cumber can go out there and become an 'over paid' tutor if he/she thinks its that easy a job.

As for supeficial learning, as a student I learnt enough to pass the test. I had 40 min to answer a question so it was pointless to learn 1 hour plus information. Since those exams many moons ago I never felt that having 'superficial' knowledge of rock formations and what Jesus said and did has damaged me as a person in any way :)

So, I'm a fan of 'tricks'.

"Are you telling me that an adult with access to books and the Internet cannot tutor their DC at secondary school?"

I don't think I could tutor my child to the standard required these days. I have neither the patience nor the skills. I am also inclined to think that DD is more likely to pay attention to someone who is not as close to her emotionally and psychologically as a parent.

So a wasted £36 per hour x say 20 hours = £720 if DC FAILS to go from an A to A*?

For not-so-rich parents, a perfect example of a totally superficial demand for tuition and a totally unnecessary waste of money.

Is the tutor only teaching tricks to go from A to A* or providing a real understanding of the subject?

Anyway, my concern is for those students who genuinely need tuition in Maths and English but are not getting it due to exorbitant tuition rates fuelled by a superficial demand for a superficial service (from A to A*).

We pay £18 for 30mun for our music teacher so prices mentioned for a tutor is quite reasonable IMO and a bargain if my DC goes from a A to A*

"Why do some people think £20/25 an hour is expensive?"

If £25 an hour for tuition (per subject, per child) is cheap, why don't all parents employ tutors for their children?

Why do so many children in this country get very poor results in essential subjects like Maths and English?

£25 an hour might be cheap for some, but it is unaffordable for many.

"Why should a qualified teacher charge less than that?"

Why should a qualified teacher be tutoring in the first place?

If the 'qualified teacher' is any good in class, very few of his/her students would be needing tuition.

Is a 'qualified teacher' in our 'First World' country not paid a 'professional' salary so that he/she finds it necessary to earn extra money after school?

Or do the 'qualified teachers' find it more lucrative to give up teaching and do private tuition instead?

"People pay a £100 for a letter from a lawyer for example."

Most not-so-rich people in this country don't.

"Personally, education is high on my value list."

So would you pay £25 an hour for tuition so that your child would get an A* rather than an A or B without tuition?

Would you pay £25 an hour for a 'professional' maths tutor to teach your child tricks to get an A without understanding the questions?

I'm getting scared by how much things have changed since I was at school. must be very old I remember having completely disorganised generally descended into an unruly rabble science lessons - all the kids who bought the Letts revise guide and learned it from cover to cover got an A, but the rich one who went to a fancy GCSE revision course got a C, and those who relied on the their notes were equally screwed. We were the 'fast track' science set - but we were all so put off science that we didn't want to go on to A-level. So I get that a tutor might make the difference to enjoyment like andisa says. But it makes me sad that everyone is feeling they need to do this, especially if you are already paying for private education. My parents thought they were being really generous buying new versions of the science revise guides .........

I had been hoping that all I had to do when DD gets to this stage was dutifully buy the revise guides ........

One more thing to add..
Why do some people think £20/25 an hour is expensive? Why should a qualified teacher charge less than that? People pay a £100 for a letter from a lawyer for example.

I think anything to do with children and people think they shouldn't pay so much - yet they buy expensive cars and think that's value. Personally, education is high on my value list.

I do find it sad that tutors are now so commonplace . I think it is partly because there is such pressure to achieve those high grades for university. Really is more competitive than 30 years ago when us mums were aiming for uni.

Saying that my son in Yr 11 has had a tutor since Yr 8 for the subject he is not so good at and loathes - feels that it helps him now and achieves more in tutor time than in class - 1 to 1 does work of course, for those who can afford it sadly.

I don?t tutor my children they all go to private schools where they work ahead of the NC, there are lots of parents at the school that tutor their children but you can tell that these kids would not keep up unless they had a tutor. My children are members of photography clubs, they earn money from this hobby, all of them play musical instruments, horse riding, football, hockey and cricket clubs, they speak 2 languages fluently, DC1 is a BASI ski instructor, during their holidays they buy and sell Antiques on line. We are teaching them to have skills for life there is a lot more to education than having your head stuck in a book 12 hours a day.