Secondary appeal

Ingles2 - I think it depends where you live. I have definitely seen copies of the CAF and correspondence to the parents offering another school as part of the papers given by the admissions authority. I think it is useful background. I don't think it is prejudicial - at least where I live - because as a panel you are looking at them in relation to the school appealed for.

I want parents to come away thinking that they have had a chance to put their case across fairly and I have given the admissions authority a hard time if warranted. I haven't come across the underhand tactics that prh47bridge describes and I sincerely hope LEAs like that are in a minority. I would definitely suggest an adjournement while they put their offer in writing in that scenario!

SchoolsNightmare - if you missed out by a fraction I would say you have a pretty reasonable chance on the waiting list. I wouldn't expect to hear just yet.

If it comes to an appeal, try not to worry too much. All the panelists I have met are nice but you have to build a really convincing case as there will be many appeals and many of them will come down to distance. You may be asked by the panel why you didn't mention the medical condition on the application - but a lot of people don't tbh - especially if you are close enough to have been allocated a place in other years. What you have to show though is why it can only be managed by going to that school and not to another one. You might want to start approaching your consultant and GP now with supporting evidence and if they are willing to support you in saying that DC must go to that particular school, all the better. Generally a letter just stating the medical condition won't be enough.

Can I just say, it is not the case in all LEAs to mention your allocated school or CAF forms. I appealed in Kent last year and it was made clear to me by the LEA that the appeal panel were independent and would have no knowledge of what was on my CAF, whether I had accepted or rejected the allocated school. Nor was it brought up at appeal by the Lea or questioned by the panel.

SchoolsNightmare - Agree with kensingtonia.

The one thing I would add is that you mustn't let the LA ambush you with a last minute offer. There was a case reported on MN last year where a parent who had not received an offer found that the LA started the hearing by claiming that they were about to offer a place at school X. The panel took that as gospel and rejected the appeal but no such offer was ever made and it rapidly became clear that the LA had never had any intention of making the offer.

If the LA try to introduce an offer at the appeal which you haven't heard about before you should ask the chair to either adjourn the appeal to give you time to consider the offer and adjust your case as required in light of this new information, or alternatively to proceed as if the offer had not been made.

SchoolsNightmare, hang on in there, the acceptances have to be received about now and then at last the waiting lists will start moving, though I imagine it may be after Easter before they start re-offering places. A lot of people who go private do still apply to state schools as insurance, are you in West London?, in my experience quite a few people apply to schools and then move abroad or relocate in the months before starting. I have heard of people being offered places up to September - though obviously that is still a nightmare.

With regard to the appeal, you do not really need to show why the LA's eventual offer is no good but you have to try and build a really convincing case of why DC should go to a particular school or schools. Double check that the admissions authority have not messed up with distance or the other admissions criteria - it does happen occasionally.

Thank you kensingtonia.

Isky, with regard to your first sentence, the appeals panel do not allocate schools to those with no offers - the admissions authority does that. The appeals panel just hears appeals from people who didn't get into particular schools.

Unfortunately I have seen quite a few appeals where it has been the case that parents only applied for one or two schools. I don't think it is necessarily deliberate, a lot of people think they will get a certain school but they don't realise the catchment has shrunk or the admission criteria changed etc. If people do it deliberately they are really really stupid to be honest, it certainly will not help them get the school they want on appeal. Of course panels are human and feel sorry for people, but it certainly does not win them the appeal. If parents are doing it deliberately, they will likely be condemning their child to a long journey to a worse school than the local ones they rejected.

I urge people to use up all their choices. A not so great school locally is better than one you never heard of far away. I got my fifth and last choice for DD2. Last year people who live closer to the school than us didn't get in, if I was applying now I would use the sixth choice as well.

How does Appeal Panel react to facts (if known) that parents did apply only for 2 schools knowing that perhaps they will not be accepted . Are they priority to be allocated schools via Appeal or depending on individual case?

I hope there is no pitty to such appeals as those parents might be just bullying the way through the system by claims "my child didnt get school" !

I know parents who did that as they didnt wish for their child to be allocated 3rd or4th choice schools hence applied for 2 on CAF and now appealing.

isky - No, the panel will not question that at all. They know that if you reject the offered school the LA is under no obligation to come up with another offer, so accepting the offer is the sensible thing to do. Also, as you have accepted the offer it is clear to the panel that you are not one of those parents who think they can bully their way into their preferred school by rejecting everything else. You will not be penalised for accepting the offered school.

hackneyLass - The admission authority (which is the LA for community schools, the school itself for VA schools, free schools and academies) must answer any reasonable question you ask to help you prepare for your appeal. If they do not do so you should highlight this to the appeal panel.

If this is a community school I would try asking the LA your questions.

Hi SWStressed I am writing my son's appeal letter right now! I have 5 columns on a piece of paper: my son's need (e.g. good at maths); facts to show this (e.g. SATs & extra provision at his primary school); appeal school's provision (e.g. in curriculum GCSEs & extra-curriculum); allocated school's provision (in case I am asked); evidence (e.g. letter from his primary head). Then I can turn these into loving crafted paragraphs about why this school (and by inference no other).

I am going through the schools' prospectuses line by line though not all the facts are easy to find (and appeal school not very helpful). Wished I had asked more penetrating fact-based questions at the open day.

Good luck with writing yours...

Dear prh47bridge,
Can I get your opinion as I have accepted school we DO NOT WANT , will the panel Q why did we accepted if infact we do not want the school . We have actually viewed unwanted school and were not impressed from open evening but had no choice (central london) and included in CAF otherwise would be only 2 schools on CAF

SWStressed - The LA will include the offered school in their case regardless of whether or not you mention it. You may be asked why you rejected it. Most appeal panels have come across parents who think that, by rejecting the offered school, they can force the LA or the appeal panel to give them a place at the school they want. You need to make sure the appeal panel don't get the impression that is what you are doing.

Remember, you are appealing FOR a school, not AGAINST one. If you focus your discussion on Why school X is no good for your child, the panel could easily say that OK, maybe it isn't, but that is no reason to admit her to school Y; there are other schools in the area with spaces, you could take one of those. Your appeal should focus on why School Y is the one that will suit your child. You will inevitably mention School X in that, but it has to be focused around specifics that School Y can provide for your child and X can't, not a general "we refused X because the results are poor"

So you could say, for example "My DD is a county level hockey player and School Y have a record holding hockey team, whilst School X doesn't play hockey at all".

SWStressed,
Appeal form I have submitted asked which school was child allocated?
I did provide details but thought that was actually strange if you could not disccuss a school during your appeal.

I am sure professionals will come on board and clarify the matter.

Thank you for taking your time to reply.

I will be following all your experience and advice and not disccusing allocated school.I hope that I have sufficient evidence (ie Y4& Y5 reports,support letters from professionals,samples of work if they wish to look at..) to provide that my child is most suitable for the school hence win appeal.

Thanks again

isky, I agree with all the advice others have given you.

If you attack the offered school you are only giving the panel reasons why you don't want your child there. That doesn't help. Even if they agree that this is the wrong school for your child it doesn't mean that the appeal school is the right one. That is what you need to prove. Attacking the offered school will therefore not help you win your appeal. If you manage to put the panels backs up by taking the approach that "this school isn't good enough for my child" you may actually damage your chances of winning. The panel shouldn't reject your appeal just because you take that approach but they may be less inclined to give you the benefit of any doubt.

You may think that, because your child is bright, they should go to a school with a high league table position but that is not how the system works. However much you want the appeal panel to consider this argument the simple fact is that the rules do not allow them to do so. You can make any argument you want at appeal but the panel has to follow the rules when deciding the outcome.

Never, ever attack the offered school. Take the approach Admission has indicated to show how the appeal school is right for your child. That is the way to win your appeal.

"I understand your point panel chair but i think panel should consider the facts if child whose level are reaching 6 as predicted in sats,is g&t in maths than perhaps child should be considered to better school which is high in league table. Of course every parent wants the best but if your kid is bottom of class in primary school and barely can read surely it will NOT become GENIUS in the best possible school either.I myself would not bother to bring such a waste of space kid."

I woiuld suggest that, in fact, the child who is doing so well would do well anywhere (I have personal experience of this, where my siblings and I went to schools which could not have been more different - [just] ex secondary modern all the way up to top private school on a scholarship. All got similar results, all went to Oxbridge), and needs the place in a 'highly regarded' school much LESS than a child who needs really good teaching....

Except in fact schools which are 'highly regarded' in fact don't always have good teaching, they are just in areas or have selection procedures that mean that they take in birhgt kids with no barriers to learning and churn them back out the other end. The really good schools with fantastic teaching are often those which DO take children who need extra help and enable them to make more progress than expected... but that doesn't necessarily make you 'highly regarded' ...

isky, to follow through on what you are saying, if your child is G & T in maths and you have some proof of that, then you can say that and say that preferred school has a strong maths department and will allow your child to do two maths GCSE courses and three different "A" level maths courses or whatever it is, which your allocated school does not do. That is the way to make it positive for the school you want without rubbishing the school that you have been allocated.
As far as panels are concerned you will not local to me be allowed to present Ofsted information etc. The clerk will stop you because the panel is not allowed to consider any information that is around the capabilities or otherwise of the school.

If you wander into an appeal using language like "waste of space kid" you'll be out the door in record time. You never know, one of the panel might have a child at the school you don't want, and you will effectively be labelling their child a waste of space.

The panel will and must take the view that each school will give each child a good education. OFSTED, exam results are irrelevant; otherwise every single child who didn't get a place would be able to successfully appeal!

It is the other elements that one school offers that make it suit your child specifically, over and above other schools. So if your child has a specific talent for a sport that the other school doesn't play, or if it's on four floors and your child has a condition where they can't climb stairs. Telling the panel that your child is "too good" for a particular school is just going to get their backs up.

I understand your point panel chair but i think panel should consider the facts if child whose level are reaching 6 as predicted in sats,is g&t in maths than perhaps child should be considered to better school which is high in league table. Of course every parent wants the best but if your kid is bottom of class in primary school and barely can read surely it will NOT become GENIUS in the best possible school either.I myself would not bother to bring such a waste of space kid.

Many schools in London claim to have some kind of specialists status but look at Westminster City School? Yes,lovely building,claims science,extra - curricular activities,pastoral care...REALLY?

Ofsted dosnt agree,GCSE and A levels results what matters and they are BAD!!!
Who wrote prospectus and website,not much to show for such a big development where meals are paid for by LEA, meaning parents dont work...