What exactly is a 'pressurised' school?

I was backed into a corner had an interesting chat with a mother who hadn't sent her DD to my DDs school as she had heard heard it was too pressurised. She was now concerned that her DD was under too much pressure at current school. It transpired that she was doing 3 instruments, with ensembles and orchestras, and 4/5 hours HW each weekend day.

I suspect that DD would be a neurotic over working wreck wherever she was schooled.

My DD is an A rather than A* pupil but she does very little work. I don't know what would happen were she in a less pressurised environment.

Okay, not my personal experience, but a friend. She has 3 daughter's, she initially sent all 3 to a local very selective girls school, which has a reputation of being "pressurised". Two of her daughter's have thrived, the middle one didn't, she was "good enough" for the school but not good enough to feel happy there. My friend moved her to a slightly less "pressurised" school, and says within weeks she had her happy smiley daughter back. She still thinks the first school is a "good" school it just didn't suit her middle daughter (she also wouldn't move the other two).
So basically just make your decision on which school is the best fit for your DD, and don't let pressure sway you. Prospectuses are also often what the school would like to be, or a reflection of the theories the Head approves of, not necessarily what the school is like (which is why schools change character slowly after a change of Head).

@yellowtip yes, pressurised is certainly not the word I'd use for DD1's school experience up till now. She's not bored, though, which she was at primary school

I know a number of people who have DC in more than one selective Indie, and there are big differences. DS is at a school where A is the norm, and so there is a risk that a child dropping to an A in one subject might feel they had failed. Not surprisingly we have been very careful not to convey any expectations of our own, partly because I'm not sure if we care whether he gets all As, but also because peer pressure is enough. DD's school has nothing like those expectations. If she gets all A*s it will be because she has decided that is what she wants to do. Some will, but it will be a much smaller proportion.

It is not unusual for people with DC in different types of schools to say that each school is the right school for that child. There is also confirmation of homework loads on the lines described by OP, and that homework can dominate. In our case not a problem because DS seems to get on with it, probably slightly too quickly, and find time for sports, Skype etc, but he says others can get ground down. He also suspects that one or two have tutors to help them keep up.

I would not necessarily dismiss a hot house. However it needs to be the school that your daughter really wants to go to, because she will have to do the work. If she finds the academic atmosphere exciting then it is a great opportunity. She also needs to be the sort of girl who is not bothered if she is towards the bottom of the class - few will excel in everything.

I would not worry too much about whether she is bright enough. These schools dont often make mistakes, and when they do it is often because candidates are over-prepared and so appear more academic than they actually are. Summer term/holiday children are almost a year younger that the September kids and will continue catching up through Yrs 7 & 8.

A private theory - sorry those who actually know about education - but being good at maths seems to become more important in secondary. Bright girls at primary seem to be the ones who read and write well at an early stage. The mathematicians get their revenge at secondary when a logical approach helps in physics and chemistry, Latin and German. Even history, RE and English comprehension become more analytical.

Perfectly possible then for a child to realise half way through year 7 that they really are quite clever after all, even if they had spent primary mid way down the year group.

Assuming that your other choice has a good cohort who will do well, the question is really where your daughter sees herself, and where you think she will thrive most.

Well, at or just left.

Same here. 7 kids at a super selective and very far from 'pressured' indeed.

Same here 3kids at or just left "super selective" schools and happy and rounded as well as academically successful as are most of their peers - the ones who I don't see as that are either "hot housed" to within every minute of every day in order to keep up, because really it isn't the right school for them BUT it's where parents want them, or from backgrounds where non academic pursuits aren't valued (eldests mate wan't allowed to do music, drama or sport as they would cut into study time- however boyfriends were allowed, therefore she had "boyfriends" from the age of 11, constantly- interestingly in year 13 i think she realised that she could be happily single too and so far no uni boyf?) .

I think it's a credit to the schools that kids who appear in the school magazines winning external prizes for academia are also those who appear in school plays/play in the orchestra or sports teams.

The negative points seem to be coming either from parents who DON'T have kids at highly selective school but have heard xyz from Mrs so and so.

I got two very happy kids at selective schools. I know that it is an over used word but they are thriving.

Fair enough - not trying to cause a row, just surprised, but it seems I was reading it wrong!

Foxton, no-one I know would, and I doubt anyone posting here would either. I think what people are suggesting is that this may not be the true situation. There are lots of smoke and mirrors here and it is very, very hard to discern the true situation.

The other type of pressure that many overlook and underestimate is pressure to conform. We've friends with children who were at a Steiner school although there was no academic pressure they wanted children who conformed to their view on child behaviour development those that didn't/couldn't/wouldn't were miserable. In a very academic school there may be pressure from peers teachers parents to a certain type of behaviour; it might be competitive, or swotty studious, or intellectual. Many children find it difficult not to bow to this pressure.

That post was to Foxton

They might be the parents who know from first hand experience that these accusations are frequently groundless.

You might very well be talking to the wrong parents dignan.

If this is true - about the tutoring and pressure then I would definitely avoid. But I agree "extremely clever" pupils at really good schools do not need this. Nor how a "really" good school could think everyone can be at the top. And I don't understand why anyone would carry on sending their children there. It may well be true but I would want to be sure it is not a small handful of views being bounced around and repeated back many times over - I have seen this happen with rumours about schools (in one case something very specific was involved so the rumour was recognisable as it departed further and further from the truth!). I agree it is very hard to anticipate how a ten year old will rise to challenges of being, say, 15 juggling umpteen demands, but a great school would have the support in place to help. I think you should give them a chance to show you their views on that, and if they fail, then steer clear.

Why would anyone knowingly put their DC into a school where extremely clever pupils routinely don't feel they are doing well? As you say, pressure is pressure and the culture of the school obviously encourages this level of anxiety. Is this not going to cause bigger problems than going to another school with equally good results? I'm surprised at how many posters seem to think it's the better option.

You sound as though you're speaking only to seriously disenchanted parents then dignan. Why aren't they jumping ship? Pupils at truly good schools achieve without constant tutoring. Are you sure it's the school exerting the pressure or is it the parents themselves?

The other group of people it's wise to ignore are those who do have children at one of these schools and are a little too smug about it: insisting on spreading the word that it's 'pressurised' is often self-flattery of a sort. Very tedious.

Dealing directly with the school and talking to the staff and perhaps taking a good hard look at whether the pupils you see when you visit seem profoundly miserable or actually quite chirpy will be a far sounder basis on which to make a decision than hearsay from potentially biased sources.

Agree about GCSE as opposed to IGCSE pressure, given the tyranny of controlled assessments. The school may very well be reducing rather than increasing the pressure by taking this line (anyhow, the distinction is about to become blurred with changes to the GCSE format).

Also agree that 'pressure' is a poor but often used synonym for perfectly appropriate expectation.

dignan obviously knows her daughter but it sounds as though she needs to explore the school rather more and form an independent judgment, particularly if she and her husband are in two different minds.

I think this is an interesting discussion - I have heard a wide variety of schools described as hothouses and pressurised and I think the terms mean very different things to different people.

On a factual(ish) note, my children's school is switching over to doing more iGCSEs in some subjects because they have found that the endless controlled assessments eat too much into teaching time, which is then dominated by the exam syllabus, and mean the pressure on the children is relentless. I think there is pressure both ways, but certainly don't think iGCSEs are de facto part of a "more pressurised" system.

I am sure you will make the right decision for your daughter but I would find out in more detail what the context is for the information you have been given. I think plenty of academically inclined schools would, for example, expect children to get 8 out of 10 in a vocab text of ten words they have been given a week to learn and asked to resit if not - this will take about 5 minutes. If they genuinely expect everyone to get over 80% in everything then they are setting tests that are too easy as the children at the top will not be being stretched, and this is unlikely to deliver the sort of results you imply they get. I would try to speak to several parents who have children currently at the school and ask detailed questions, and it might also be worth contacting the school to ask how she did and where she would be in the cohort at least at the start. Their response may tell you something about how holistic their approach to getting those good results is. Children can be helped to be happy and confident by being pushed just the right amount with good support in a caring environment, but this may not be one.

I agree with AMumInScotland. You clearly don't think your DD will be happy in this school now you know more about it. My DH tutored a boy who was regularly getting 89% in maths tests at his highly selective, expensive school. He felt like a failure and his family paid for external tutoring. I would much prefer my DC to be in an environment where they felt successful than a stressful hothouse, however prestigious.

I think you know your own child and what will suit her far better than any school will, and that you should not worry about what other people perceive to be "best".

Think about the other school you are looking at and what you liked about it - if your gut reaction is that your daughter will be more happy, rounded and confident there, then go for it, and ignore people saying you are "throwing away an opportunity". If your daughter is not in the top 50% of her class at present, then a highly selective and acadmeically pressured school may not bring out the best in her. Its about personality as well as passing the test and being offered a place.

Dignan
You are not nuts just considered! And you should be...You appear to have a remarkable confident daughter and it is important that you choose a school that she will be happy at.

Despite not being in the top 50% in her year she has been unfazed by sitting a difficult exam and going through an interview process which can be challenging. This in itself is a mega achievement.

The school report must have been very good and the school supportive of her application.

In the non pressurised environment of our prep school a child performing below 50% of the year group would have been gently steered away from sitting an exam for a school perceived as highly academic.
With regards to work.

My ds attends what is perceived as a highly selective pressurised school. Some days he does have a lot of work but its no different to the amount of work given at the schools his friends attend which are considered less pressurised. His weekends are generally free enough for his sporting endeavours and the playstation. He has the odd project at holidays but they are holidays and the work is really tiny in the scheme of things. My ds is self motivated and likes to do well especially in sport. I do not see him as missing out on his childhood because of the work he has to do.. What I do see at the school is that he is taught beyond passing exams and to appreciate the subjects he is learning in themselves. I have found myself introduced to areas which I would not have thought about by some of the work he has done. It appears to be an enriching situation for parents as well as the children. I would also point out that my involvement with his work is minimal, the only hassle is making sure is the kits are ready and laundered on a regular basis!
Your dd seems despite being the youngest, very together with a strong sense of self. I think her view should be very important in your decision process. How does she feel about the school? And more importantly how will she feel 10 years down the road if you turn down this offer because you think she may not be up to it or have a good time.

I think you have a very difficult decision but yellowtip is right. You should be careful and take great care with regards to the information you have received from people in the know. Also think back to the process involved in getting to this stage. How has your ds been throughout this whole process. That in itself will give you a pretty good guide to how she will be at at the school.
Good luck and I hope it all works out.

halfrom

MN should have a forum for us 'pushy' parents so that we can share tips and experiences, free from posters telling us that we are being cruel to our children and preaching that children should be children etc etc :) How great would that be.

Good luck with the home tutoring.

One man's pressure is another man's high expectation.

I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people really struggle with small amounts of expectation. It weighs heavily on them. Consequently they avoid similar siuations for their DC.

I must admit though that I have never felt pressure or stress as a result of high expectation. Consequently, my DC are very robust too.
We all set ourselves very high goals...and if we don't achieve them then nothing lost.
If schools set high expectations then I am happy. DC too.
Better that than to protect yourself from failure by setting expectation low.

Also as others have said, speak to the school. There are always urban myths surrounding academic schools. I remember one Mum telling me a certain local prep school set spelling tests every night from reception. I mean really!!!!