Dilemma... 'more average' sibling to follow super-bright brother to same school, or somewhere else, with a chance to 'shine'??

But seeker you told me to quote "that is carried on at home- we provide what your ds's boarding school."
"I'm much more concerned with substance over form"thetasigmamumyou think I'm not? What am I paying all this money for? I can assure you its not this much talked about old boys net work. I too am very aware of all that glistens is not gold and will freely admit that many indies are no better than good state schools including the non selective.

I have an absolutely excellent idea of the private sector happy. Gosh, you do make assumptions! It seems to me though that you genuinely don't know what makes a top state school tick. A HT successfully leading one of these schools is not going to get ground down by goverment dictat, it just doesn't happen. And what on earth makes you suppose that parents can't converse effectively ('jargon free') with the teachers? And as for first names! . It seems to me that you have a very ill-informed view indeed. It's quite interesting to cast my mind around the adult lives of the Wykehamists I've known, and the Etonians, to try to divine the chasm which (by your reckoning) should exist .

And also, if I was paying 33k for my child to be educated I'd expect the extra curricular activities to be bloody good! And if I chose to invest a quarter of that into my own children's extra curricular activities, they's be bloodygoodtoo.

@Yellow - they had a vile uniform in my day so perhaps you were lucky!

My experience is that you can't judge a state school by what is on the website. Whether it's a grammar school, a comp or a primary school. It's the sort of thing you don't spend money on if you operate in a poorly funded area. This does not mean that schools aren't providing cultural opportunities for children, just that they are not spending time and money keeping a website up to date.

All that glisters is not gold, you know. Personally, I'm much more concerned with substance over form.

I didn't actually go to Old Palace thetasigmamum, I was a direct grant pupil elsewhere. Bit purist to point it out I know :)

I didn't look at your DD's school website because obviously i don't know every school in the UK. The two I looked at are names frequently mentioned on MN with great reverence because of their outstanding results and as I say both are in the top 10 of state school nationally and one is where my DS2 was offered a place. I'd of happily looked at your DD's if I'd known which school it was.

I would really like to know what goes on at your DD's school what opportunities are offered because I happy to except that maybe I'm wrong.
We are all entitled to our opinions thats what makes MN such fun.

@happy if you are happy with your choices then that's great. I do not believe you have bought your DS a million more opportunities than my DCs will have, though.

@happy If you didn't look at DD1's school then you didn't look at the top performing grammar (when considering both GCSE and A levels). And boys do go there. Although DD1 has a pretty low opinion of most of them right now. She's at that age. And so are they.

seeker do you provide what he has?
I am obviously unable to provide the exact details but even if you lived in London, have an unlimited budget and never had to cook a meal, load the dish washer, or do the shopping etc etc. all those things that families do just to function you would be hard pushed to do it. Remember these schools employ people whose job it is to organise all these extra activities. If they want to do a lecture about for example Venetian architecture they probably know who is the current expert, they have the facilities to run it and enough interest to put it. They can do it at a time that is convenient to the children and in the school so the children can just walk there. They can put on 5-6 plays a term, God knows how many concerts which the children and in fact parens can watch for free (ok we pay school fees so ultimately not free), they have the space to invite well known artists to exhibit their work I could go on. This happens day in day out, week in week out at my DS's school. No family carry on this on at home after school. The opportunities are endless and in fact my DS is unable to attend all of them.

"@happy I wouldn't blame you if you had a low opinion of DD1s school if it was based solely on the quality of the school website"
I haven't got a low opinion of it because I've not read it! I looked at two webs sites both boys grammars in the top 10 nationally (I only do boys) its not the structure and organisation of the website that I was commenting on. I looked at dates for diary section at up and coming events to see what is offered in top state schools. As I've said already this is not a pissing match I just believe that people who post that the state offers the same as independent schools are saying this because they don't actually know what these top schools offer. TBH until my DS went to one I hadn't really grasped myself what they offer, OK having spent 6 yrs at a highly regarded prep you've got a vague idea but its all very nebulous its not until your actually there do you realise how massive the difference is.
In fairness to the state sector and as a public sector worker myself who is currently drowning under endless changes of tack/paperwork/new regulations/meaningless jargon inflicted by our current/previous government I do think that this sort of thing must also have an impact on state schools as well; the way they manage them and the individual staff. Independent schools are of course free of all of this and I'm sure this has a huge impact on the staff.
For example I have already commented on the jargon free conversations that I am able to have with my DS's teachers. This matters to me they talk to me as we are on equal terms, in a language I understand, we address each other by our first names, I feel that in the event of a problem we are working together to solve it or even better they're not expecting me to solve it they're solving it. In contrast when I speak to the staff at my DS1 school they only contact me at certain times of the day; when I'm at work and unable to take private calls (the other day I had 8 messages in a day from a teacher) when I left a message saying I couldn't talk till someone till after 6 pm I was told that this was not possible; stalemate and yes the staff are very helpful and informative and they obviously know my DS although I do have to keep asking them what X and Y actually mean and if they promise to do something they always do it. But somehow something is missing I just don't feel its a partnership I don't feel we are on equal terms maybe they slightly patronise me I just can't quite put my finger on it. I sometimes get off the phone feeling vaguely uncomfortable for a reason I cant explain. Maybe its just me and maybe I'm just a rubbish parent and just don't want to be involved that much therefore boarding suits me and that why I'm happy and feels its better. Having said all of this I still think and in fact know that my DS2 has a million more opportunities as do other in similar schools than the state sector can ever provide. If you think about the fees are £33 000+ a year so its inevitable.

Finally I don't know any teachers and I'm not actually criticising them, in my occupation we are becoming increasingly demoralised and indignant by this governments current activities this of course has a knock on effect on our day to day working life and I'm sure it's the same for them.

Happygqrderner-it was this remark of yours that I was questioning

"Yelowtip and BandB perhaps can you provide me with the evidence that your schools provides as rich an education as my DS2 school.". but I agree- you can't possibly compare the boarding experience. My dd's school does provide a wide cultural experience but of course that is carried on at home- we provide what your ds's boarding school.

"School no 1 no question. Absolutely agree that state non selective isn't the place for a child you are worried may "struggle" at all. " It's this sort remark that really gives all private school parents an often unfair bad name. Words fail me!

Back to the OP if she's still listening!

School no 1 no question. Absolutely agree that state non selective isn't the place for a child you are worried may "struggle" at all.

He wants to go. Let him.

@happy I wouldn't blame you if you had a low opinion of DD1s school if it was based solely on the quality of the school website (which is tied into the LEA website system and is genuinely woeful in every way). The website isn't the school though. Since the school gets so much less funding per head than schools in the rest of the country, I'm glad so little of it is wasted on a website.

@seeker on the OBN - absolutely. If people don't get affected by it then lucky them. It definitely exists.

@happy, @yellow - it's not the education that is better at the posh schools when compared to the top top state selective schools. It's the extra layer of privilege, the branding, and the networking, which buys advantage. You can circumvent that a little by going to Oxbridge from a state school, but not entirely. Certainly in that bit (and at the level) of the city in which I work, I am still, in this day and age, unusual not only for being a woman but also for being a state school product. But the city isn't everything and I am doing all I can to ensure my kids never follow my lucrative but ultimately depressing career path.

I actually don't think things have changed much over the years, either. I know what school Yellow went to, I think. I think she knows what school I went to. In the 80s the very top performers at her school didn't do any better than the top performers at My school (which was a grammar till the borough went comp) and the overall results profile was very similar. After my school went comp (I was in the first comp year) the results declined a bit (but not in my year when they obviously made a big effort to prove nothing would change). Sad but true.

@yellow and of course the per head funding of some state grammars is much higher than that of other state grammars. :(

sorry pressed wrong button and posted before I proof read posting and before I'd finished it. Now changed computers so hopefully wont do it again. Let me start again bandb yes the DS is at boarding school and has been since he was in yr 3! I am not going to even start that debate because we will never agree. My DS as a child at one of the countries too full boarding schools has a myriad of sporting opportunities 20+ to choose from this is of course fantastic but as he will tell you he can only do one a day and there are 2-3 he would really like to do but which clash with others. There are also a 20+ extra curricular clubs as well but boarders lead busy lives and although have time every day to go participate in activities you can't go to all of them because just not possible. For me this is not what we pay for obviously outstanding teaching but i agree that can be found in many schools smaller classes freedom from government intervention and its ever changing whims driven by one eye on the next election 600 yr old builds acres of playing field and all the things one associates with this type of ed are definitely motivating me. But its the strong emphasis on cultural activities that too me are important just last 1/2 term three plays loads of concerts art exhibitions lectures by experts in their particular field. I've just looked at the websites of two grammars school who are in the top 10 in the UK and neither have the range and quality of cultural activities. At my DS school these cultural activities are woven into day to day structure of the school and are as important in the same way lessons are. May be I'm being swayed by the fact thats it boarding you ultimately have the time to offer so much more. Maybe its just the whole boarding experience that is influencing my views because I do struggle to put into words what makes it different and I believe ultimately better but as I've said the school and of corse boarding is not for everyone .

seeker I've only quickly scanned my previous comments but I'm not sure I used the word "rich."
With regard to the old boy net work I was talking to my DH about it. He feels its not the old boy network your talking about its money. He works with some of the wealthiest people in the world and they mix with other billionaires and that is how they get positions of power and influence. You only have to look at the likes of Mandelson and how he behaved to see that it not the old boy network that gives you a leg up it cosying up to those with money.

Could you explain "rich" education? I agree that the boarding debate is one we shouldn't stray into- except I suppose when comparing the quality of education we would somehow have to factor in the input from parents for day pupils outside school hours with that of the staff at a boarding school?

bandb yes the DS is at boarding school and has been since he was in yr 3! I am not going to even stray that debate because we will never agree. My DS as a child at one of the countries too full boarding schools has a myriad of sporting opportunities to choose from but this is of course fantastic but as he will tell you he can only do one a day and there are 2-3 he would really like to do but which clash with others. There are also a 30 - 40 extra curricular clubs as well but boarders lead busy lives and again can't and although have time every day to go participate in activities you can't go to all of them because it's not

Tres gentil b&b (it was a dodgy East European PMship mind you).

They're missing all the dollied up stuff on the prospectus which is designed to bleed £33K a year from vulnerable parents, no?

We have quite nice cricket nets on our village field, it does the business.

Ooh, hark at you, Yellowtip.

Still curious to find out what our dcs are supposed to be missing that happygardening's ds is not missing.

I assume her dc is not at a boarding school, or I would be inclined to think he was missing his family - and his family him. I know that no amount of 'richness' of education could compensate for missing the richness of family life. So what is it then?

A great great uncle of mine was one seeker, I hope it was just because he was bright.

I suppose I detect in my university aged children a lack of shallowness of thought happygardening. That presumably is the product of a rich education?

They do if they want to be Prime Minister, yellowtip.