New test for Tiffin Girls

What's this about private schools producing a "higher life form"? The great thing about TGS when I was there was the absence of that inferiority complex, whether in the company of a Paulina or not (and believe me having met a few at uni, I'd say they were a mixed bunch...hmmm just like normal people... )

I recall being very flattered when I was mistaken for a Paulina by a Paulina (having actually crawled out of Croydon).

I never even took (or failed) the test :)

I know about half a dozen girls fairly well who are currently at St Paul's; I don't think any of them are more brilliant than my daughter who is at Tiffin or some of her classmates quite honestly. More confident and privileged certainly but not a higher life form.

Yes, that legend is a mistake. The results are from the GCSEs. As a comparison of those scores and the A level ones shows. They aren't the same.

I imagine some of the kids who get in to the indie selective schools are utterly brilliant. The Paulinas, for example (I was at Cambridge with loads of them and they genuinely were a higher form of life. But nice. As opposed to some of the girls from other indies who were much more snobby). And others aren't (many of them go to the indies because they have failed to get into the grammars). But it doesn't really matter though. They are certainly buying more privilege than our kids in the super selective grammars get, even if the raw exam results are similar (or worse, as in our area. Or better if you look at eg St Pauls). Their kids will become a higher form of life as a result of the privilege bought at 11+. Not much we can do about it, but no point in denying it.

Thanks Theta. I have retried the link but when I click on the points per pupil score it is still stating those are the results at A/AS though it says GCSE at the top of the page.

Anyway it is "academic" so to speak; I agree that the intake at all the super selectives is roughly the same.

What really annoys me is the private school parents who assume their darling offspring are a higher form of life for getting into the selective independent secondaries - but that is for another thread....

@Kensingtonia No, the link I gave above is for GCSEs. There is another table for A levels at www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16730014 This shows the schools I listed as being 'above' Tiffin for A levels.

Ultimately - I don't think the intake is any different actually, between Tiffins, or many other super selectives. Since they all rank their tests, they will all be taking in the kids who either are working at level 6 because their schools have extended them that far, or who could be working at level 6 if they were at schools that pushed them on (and are smart enough and calm enough to work out stuff for themselves perhaps for the first time, in an exam scenario). Plus kids working at 5A or even 5B. And the numbers are probably about the same. But in theory, a child working at 5C or even 4A can 'pass' the test in September - the question is how many will get a higher mark.

Theta - I think the BBC (DFES) is based on A/AS and not GCSE (at least the one I was looking at!) As you stated, the broadsheet tables are voluntary. What I thought was interesting was that Tiffin was very slightly higher than Henrietta Barnett whose admission test is similar to the one Tiffin is changing to. Frankly there are a lot of clever girls who don't get in whichever way you look at it. 1400 applied to Tiffin Girls' this year and a similar number to HBS.

There are girls in my daughters year 11 class at Tiffin who were tutored to get in and still go to tutoring now.

When DD2 started at her inner city comp we were surprised that quite a few in her class had already been taught English and maths to level 6 at their primary schools in our inner city London borough. The top class at her school are a similar standard to Tiffin and to be honest they are worked a lot harder.

@CustardCake in fact, faith schools are represented at all levels of the curve of school performance (especially, but not only, catholic schools). It's just that nobody makes a fuss about not being able to go to the poorly performing ones, and everyone notices the high performing ones. Full disclosure - I'm a Catholic, I'd love for my kids to go to Catholic secondary school (I'd love them - well, the girls anyway - to go to the school I went to, but we live 200 miles away now). But there is a big bermuda triangle with no Catholic secondaries at all in the west country and we are in the middle of that. Despite my wish to have the possibility of faith school for my kids, I know that it's no guarantee of a top performing school.

@kingstonia the Telegraph and the Graun (and the Times too, probably, but I don't buy the Murdoch press) publish tables on results day which are unverified and sometimes play fast and loose with the data. The BBC table I was quoting from was the one from the DfES published in January 2012, using the verified DfES data. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-16729387

Agree. Unfortunately those papers are prohibitively expensive to use.

I think in the Telegraph TGS was the top state school at GCSE last year. It was about 10th at A' level from memory. I agree that the results can be interpreted according to which measure you use.

I remember reading years ago about a test devised by Durham University for secondary school entrants which was apparently not possible to tutor for. Personally I would much rather see a test of potential rather than how well students have already been prepared. If you can't afford to tutor or even buy practice papers you are stuffed. To be honest though, I think the school rather likes having motivated hard working girls and their supportive (pushy!) parents.

I was taking a random broad brush holistic bohemian sort of approach and thinking of a CVA/ GCSE/ A Level/ leavers' destinations sort of medley kensingtonia.

I would imagine the same issues affect most pupils in comparable schools and that the parent body gives generally the same sort of support.

@kensingtonia Actually - NO. The Altrincham in the GCSE list is the Boys version. (I was getting tired fingers copy typing all the names and that was my downfall. Sloppy work on my part ) So there is only one school above Tiffin on both lists. According to the BBC. But the stats can be manipulated in many ways as we know.

@kensingtonia I'm guessing one of Colchester Royal Grammar, Altrincham Grammar school for girls, Invicta grammar school, King Edward VI grammar school Chelmsford, King Edward VI Camp Hill (boys), or Colyton if you're talking A levels. Alternatively, Lawrence Sherrif, Newstead Wood, Colchester High, Colyton, Skipton Girls high, Fort Pitt, Westcliffe high, Edward VI camp hill (girls), Altrincham or St Olaves if you are talking GCSEs.
If you're talking both, then it would be just Altrincham and Colyton I suppose.

Anyway - there are quite a few of them in that list (from the BBC website).

We Did all additional teaching and tutoring between dh and myself so the only cost was bond books , got a lot of free teaching/ practice materials from internet, so you don't need to pay for a tutor. TBH if I couldn't tutor him myself I would have got a short term additional job to pay for some else to do it. It depends how much how much you want your child to attend the best school in the end.

Yellowtip what school are you referring to as better than Tiffin Girls re results and what measure are you using (value added, number of A, A/B combined etc? As a parent I would say the girls on admission mainly fall into two categories - very intelligent with fairly minimal preparation and those who are quite intelligent but who have worked bloody hard. The vast majority of parents are extremely supportive. I think all girls in the school are more than capable of getting a A in every GCSE subject. A small minority refuse to work, some have personal issues such as divorcing parents, illness, boyfriend problems or whatever. All these can affect results. Although support is there, unlike private schools of my acquaintance Tiffin does not spoon feed and it is ultimately up to the girls themselves if they have the motiviation to succeed.

@custardcake Tiffins isn't alone in getting the 'willing to relocate' crew. We get them too. Many from London.

Actually it's not really a question, because I know the answer :)

Sure, I get that thetasigmamum. The question was why if the intake at Tiffin's is better than ours, why don't they get better results?

I'm just being annoying really, it's all this talk of 'cream' :)

@CustardCake our superselective has a radius of 50 miles. But, the population density is lower, hence fewer applicants than Tiffins evidently enjoys.

@Yellowtip I'm guessing that in London maybe the people who get offered places are at or approaching level 6 because there are so few places and so many applying and the top marks get the places. An awful lot more kids 'pass' the exams after all, than get offered places.