Will Private Secondaries take children from good state school????

In London almost all children at private Preps go on to private secondaries so it can be expected that a good number will go to the nearest such secondaries. There is likely to be a close relationship between the Prep and those secondaries, with the Prep wanting to place their pupils and the secondaries wanting applications from the stronger Prep pupils.

This can help get a child in who is up to scratch but who might have performed poorly on the day. But it can cut the other way. The Prep is likely to advise parents on the "right" school for their child and thus filter out those who they think will not fit or who might struggle. If you then persist in applying to a school the Prep does not recommend, you face the possibility of a lukewarm or poor report from the Prep Head, a surefire way of not getting a place whatever your exam results.

I cant see that there is an issue in coming from the state sector at 11+. Lots, and in some schools the majority, do. The marginal advantages of coming from a Prep are that you get a bursar's report confirming you pay your fees on time, your child will have done more French, Latin, maths and science, homework and exams and so the potential is more proven, and the Prep Head should know what seniors schools are looking for, so can both advise parents and write informed recommendations. (Steering the "sparky" child away from the small "nurturing" school and vv.)

I think that this may be a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Highgate obviously has its own junior department, and most of those children go into the senior school at 11 though even then they have to meet a minimum standard first to get into the junior department from the infants and then to get into the senior school. Most parents who want Highgate as a senior school will try to get into the junior.

There are then a further 40 odd places at 11+, and applications for those is based on the entrance exams together with interviews - there are 2 interviews, one where the child is in a pair or trio, and one individual interview. Highgate are looking for a certain type of child and they are specifically looking at how the children interact and behave towards each other.

In reality whilst there will be admissions from state schools to these schools, property prices and tiny or selective (by religion) catchments can mean that a state primary school doesn't have such a significantly different socio-economic mix that the prep schools. If anything many London prep schools are full of immigrant and expat families who either could not or chose not to play the state school selection by postcode/faith game, and are certainly ethnically far more diverse than their state neighbours.

So it doesn't surprise me that a couple of CofE schools may have been successful in getting entry in years past. But the fact that the pupils were at those schools will not have had the slightest impact on their entry to Highgate. They had to pass the entrance exam and the interview.

In terms of admissions to private schools, I can't speak for the whole of London but locally the co-eds and boys schools were inundated with applications. The number of children born in London is on the rise (approx 100k per year in 2000 and 2001, the current year 6 birth years, rising to about 130k currently), so even despite the economic outlook there will be plenty of competition for the good private schools for some years. The position is likely to be quite different in some areas outside of London though.

I understand where you are coming from and there is an element of truth in what you have heard. Some schools DO prioritise the children coming from their feeders schools, usually when they own / part own/have a stake in them. So you mentioned the GDST schools - the business already has a relationship with those families so it makes sense to continue if at all possible. My own DC are in the junior department of a very popular selective girls school. The juniors, on the whole don't even sit the 11+ they get a pass through to the senior department. But at 11, more classes are added and the 11+ test is used to determine who gets the remaining places and they come from a wide range of local schools - prep, state, and from a wide catchment across London and the home counties. Any school you are interested in will make its entrance criteria very clear so you can see if it has a business affiliation with a feeder or junior department or not.

I think also Chickydoo people are applying for more schools than in previous years e.g. 5 or 6 rather than 2 or 3 which skews it. General sense of uncertainty.
What's the co-ed private that has a long-standing relationship with the state primary? I think that's pretty unusual as most just want the pupils with the most potential wherever they're from.

Laughing Gas
Have a friend who works in admissions at top London Indie school. Hence fairly concrete info. Also Head teacher at my DD's Indie was having coffee with a group of parents ( me included ) & said the school has never been so popular. General thinking is that Parents who were sending their Dc to boarding schools are now choosing good Indie day schools instead as it is a few thousand cheaper per term.

That is interesting chicky, where did you read this data on it being the highest year on record for applications?

Are you sure you are not talking scholarships and bursary applications, as I could certainly understand that?

All schools will talk the waiting list talk, I was just interested in whether this was concrete information.

Apparently this has been the highest year on record for applications to London and South East private schools. Due to this the schools can be very selective. Even those deemed less academic are seemingly over subscribed, so consequently they can be more picky about who they take. Children at Prep schools are better prepared for exams etc, but are not any brighter than their peers at state schools. I have 3 DC who left state primary in year 6 to go on to independent secondary schools. All 3 were tutored. Interestingly one of my DC was considered super bright at his state school, only to discover he is very average set against the prep school boys who have already been doing secondary level work for 2 years.

It won/t matter one jot that your children have been to a state primaryl. What will matter is that they pass the entrance exam and that you are there with your deposit and neverending chequebook!!

Well the cimate is not good for private schools, they are not quite so picky these days. If a parent has the money, there will be many a good indie waiting to take it.

Well that was our experience.

Private schools will take anyone with money. It doesn't matter what their background is.

If your looking at entry at 13+ and a high CE mark is required then the languages can be a problem many schools will waive Latin but lots will expect French children in many prep schools will have been learning French 4-5 lessons a week since yr 3 and not just conversational French verbs etc.

If the child passes the exam/assessment with a good score and interviews well, then it doesn't matter where they were educated before.

I think there may be a difference if it comes to near near misses and waiting lists, for that us when prep Heads should be hitting the phones to negotiate, bump children up waiting lists and find out which schools might still have places; any or all of which might be influenced by existing relationships between schools and the Head's reputation for sound and reliable assessment of pupils (good but had an off day, or try a different school, or whatever). Those not at prep schools will not have this experience or networking to draw on, and so may find it harder at this point.

As an educational psychologist you will no doubt be aware that high sats results are not always proof of good teachers and children being well taught.
Quite apart from the idea that selective private schools will give a monkey about which state primary your child went to - they'll judge on exam results, head's report and interview.

I know a selective boys school which prefers kids from one state school to its own linked prep. But that is rare.

Some senior schools will prioritise children from their associated prep schools, but usually schools will look for suitable candidates from any primary school.

Some selective independents even have special entrance for state primary children. (DS got a place at Colet Court having been at state primary.)

No problem here, several friends DCs dis all or some of state primary and went to secondary. Non I know bothered with tutors. One got two scholarship offers. Ok she is brilliant at everything except not bossing my DD2 about, To be fair DD2 is also also pretty sharp.

If they are all GDST schools there might be a specific arrangement within that Trust, with guaranteed transfer from junior departments to seniors provided basic qualifying score is reached (sorry, don't know much about all girls schools; happy to be learn if that's all wrong).

It most definitely is not something that applies across the board.

Yes, my DD went from a state primary to a private secondary. The only criteria they had was a place on the waiting list and the entrance exam.

However, a friend of mine warned me that children in private primary schools do far more examinations than in state schools. So can do better in the entrance exam as they just have more experience of tests. I ended up getting about 6 sessions of private tutoring leading up to the entrance exam - just to give my DD some practice at examination technique.

Find out what sort of entrance exam it is - my DD did one based on the SATS - so what she was currently learning at school was pretty much the same. The state grammar uses the 11+ exam which is different.

I'm glad I did, as she has proved to be good at school and homework, but rubbish at exams - this didn't show up at her state primary as they did'nt do much testing.

I suppose as well that a head of a good prep will have a rapport with the heads of many secondaries and if a child has a bad exam day, might pick up the phone and discuss the situation, perhaps vouch for the child's abilities.

My guess is that it's an over-interpretation of the efforts a prep head will go to in order to find a secondary place for a pupil, both during the normal round and also (or indeed particularly) in the post-offer sorting out.

Other candidates won't have this source of advice available, so might not know which schools might be the best fit for the particular strengths/weaknesses of their DC or at the right academic level. But that won't stop a good candidate securing a place wherever they've been educated to date.