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West London secondaries - I really can't see any good options

59 replies

ThreaderickDorrit · 07/02/2012 13:27

We live Hammersmith and Fulham. We are not religious. We cannot afford private education. DD1 is reasonably academic but also loves art, drama etc. My heart is sinking when I consider our options. I read threads from South and North London mums and they just seem to have so much more choice.

Can anyone add anything to my summary of choices for children in our area?

Hammersmith Academy - totally untested. Only has year 7s at the moment. Might turn out to be great or terrible and therefore it is a total gamble. It is a technology specialist school and for me that is offputting. All I ever hear is that it has great indoor facilities but very limited outdoor space.

West London Free School - totally untested. Only has year 7s. Might turn out to be great or terrible: total gamble. We can't even assess the facilities as the building is temporary but my understanding is that there will be very little outdoor space. The political will behind this school must increase the chance that it will be successful, but probably only for a certain type of child. It is run by Toby Young who comes across as one of the least appealing characters I have ever read/heard etc. He seems to know nothing about education and I fear he is a risk to the success of the school. I take my hat off to him for establishing it but he really should have stepped back at that point. The Head was once Head of a (very average private) school in Devon where I know some teachers. They do not rave about his abilities. Even setting aside these worries we have to bare in mind that if we want this school we are unlikely to get it. It is hugely oversubscribed already.

Pheonix High School - I actually know little about this school. I dismissed it because of its historic repuation for having a problem with violence and not getting great results. I have assumed its not an option for us but would love to hear from anyone who knows more about it.

Chiswick Community SChool - Satisafactory Ofsted. Huge school. Another Tech specialism. Massive turnover of Heads. Just doesn't sound great.

Tiffin - I did not start coaching the DDs while they were still in utero so I am assuming we stand no chance. It is also miles away.

Burlington Danes - sounds like it is doing well. But if you are not religious and you do not live nearby then you have no chance.

OP posts:
EssentialFattyAcid · 11/02/2012 15:59

Religious school or nearest comp - same choice as us then!
I wonder what percentage of parents get anything other than that choice in reality

kensingtonia · 11/02/2012 15:53

The schools choose YOU! For example on my DD's application form we "chose" 2 grammars (far away), 1 church school on language aptitude, 1 new comp (partly church) and our closest comp. We got the fifth choice. We had a sixth but didn't use it. My DD1 got the grammar far away.

In theory we had a choice but in this part of London it is normally an option of religious schools (CofE or RC) or your nearest comp.

EssentialFattyAcid · 11/02/2012 15:45

I am fascinated by this discussion because it all implies that you actually do have a choice of state schools.

Is this really the case?

I live in a small city with several secondary schools but I don't know anyone who actually had a choice of school - probably 98% got their catchment school and the rest had siblings already at another school. Is it really different in London?

Coconutty · 11/02/2012 15:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Azure · 11/02/2012 15:36

Serendipity, I wish you the best of luck. I think the 50 or so places that will be allocated to those closest to the school will cover a really small area. The remaining 50 or so places (after the music scholars and other priority people) will be a lottery from 1,000 applications - hmm, doesn't look good statistically, does it? Future years will be even worse, as the sibling number will increase.

serendipity16 · 10/02/2012 20:49

Azure -That is so unfair :(
Although we're in the borough & under 3 miles, we're still not that close to the school..... although 1 bus ride away.
I saw somewhere that there were 1,072 applications.
We really want a place there but we're not holding our breath on getting a place esp if people are moving to be closer to the school.

kensingtonia · 10/02/2012 19:53

In response to your question "areyouthere.." the downsides to Holland Park are:

  1. Setting by Band (initially by the admission test) and not by individual subject
  2. Humanities is taught in the first two years rather than Geog/Hist/RE with one teacher for the lot. 3)the very odd curriculum from year 9 onwards (basically drop music, art, DT, languages, history and geography and choose 5 of them to do as one year GCSE courses over the course of the next 3 years). RE GCSE is compulsory and sat in year 9.
  3. GCSEs spread over 3 years - not an advantage in my opinion 5)My child perceives a lot of teachers pets/favouritism 6)It is very difficult to contact the school to discuss anything. In addition student service support staff are exceptionally unhelpful and downright rude - to parents

While saying this in many ways it is a great school, with a very committed and able headteacher and many superb teachers. No school is going to be perfect. When I used to go to the park with my kids when they were tiny and see the non-uniformed teenagers smoking joints and fighting in the park I swore I would never sent my child there. Ten years later it is completely different and much better in my opinion.

justonemorethread · 10/02/2012 19:09

ooops, sorry, was thinking of sixth form only.

CecilyP · 10/02/2012 18:29

You definitely have to be Catholic - very Catholic - for Cardinal Vaughan. You also have to be a boy, so it would be no use to OP.

fyfe65 · 10/02/2012 17:28

Twyford does not have a relaxed attitude towards the religious bit (except for sixth form) quite the opposite

justonemorethread · 10/02/2012 17:22

Cardinal Vaughan is where I went and not all pupils were catholic, so not sure how that works... Try to speak to someone and see if you can get an interview?

Azure · 10/02/2012 17:10

My DS is in year 6 and we're also really hoping to get a place at WLFS. I was disappointed that the admissions rules this year measures distance from the Town Hall rather than the proposed site - unfortunately for us that's 1/2 mile in the wrong direction. I have also heard of two families just from one small independent school three miles away who have rented properties near the school (and moved in temporarily) to maximise their chances of admission. Who knows how many others with the money to do so have done the same? Very depressing for those of us who genuinely live within walking distance.

sue52 · 10/02/2012 11:09

I was thinking of Drayton Manor and Ellen Wilkinson school, both of which get around 75% A-C at GCSE. There is also Twyford Cof E which seems to have a relaxed attitude to the religious bit (from what friends tell me).

areyoutheregoditsmemargaret · 10/02/2012 10:44

kensingtonia, what are the downsides to H Park then? You say much improved but to look behind the spin. I have been v impressed by behaviour of kids on buses etc, don't know what it was like longer ago.

ThreaderickDorrit · 10/02/2012 09:37

WLFS primary is an interesting development as we live in a Borough primary blackspot, last year nobody on our street got allocated a Hammersmith primary, they were sent to Fulham which is many traffic clogged miles away.

Toby, I'm rather aware I was quite rude about you above so you may not feel disposed to answer my questions, and may chuckle that I'd even consider your primary after my comments on your secondary, but needs must as we have a 2013 Reception starter who may get no primary offer... What will be the entrance criteria for the primary & how many classes will it have?

OP posts:
Bethnella · 09/02/2012 20:31

I think that was my reasoning behind having Hurlingham and Chelsea on my list. I am in the Wandsworth borough, the Putney end, and my choices are very limited. H&C is actually my closest school on straight line distance, but in my borough Elliott school is, and that is definitely a no-no for me. I am a firm believer that if your child is focused and have a loving, supporting family, they have the potential to succeed wherever they go....hopefully I won't be seeing you at an appeal!!!

kensingtonia · 09/02/2012 20:00

I used to think Holland Park was awful because of the behaviour of the kids on the bus and in Notting Hill Gate; now my child is there it seems "normal". I agree that you cannot necessarily judge by a few impressions. I was once told by an educational psychologist that there are three things to look at as far as schools are concerned; "the headteacher, the headteacher & the headteacher" and the current head at Holland Park has certainly turned it around.

Just a comment re borough boundaries -schools are allowed to prioritise kids from borough primary schools which is perfectly legal.

As a school appeal panel member, I have seen some desperately unhappy parents and kids and would urge you to have a plan A, B, C, D, E & F. Think realistically and always allow for catchment areas suddenly shrinking. Use all your choices wisely, so even if the school you are allocated is literally your last choice, it may be better than a school you never heard of in another borough.

Bethnella · 09/02/2012 19:39

I just wanted to say that as a teacher who works at a primary school very close to Hurlingham and Chelsea school and who also has a daughter currently in Y6, I have never seen feral children coming or going from it. I was really impressed with the head and his vision for the schools future and of the teachers I spoke to on the parents night, some of whom had worked there back when it was in special measures, had nothing but genuine praise for the school. I know that mud sticks when it comes to school reputations but there are many more schools out there that I would be less happy about my daughter attending. Saying that, it is not my first choice, WLFS is, but as I am out of the borough I have fingers and toes crossed!!!!! I just wish more people would put their faith in local comp schools and send their children to them to drive up standards.

serendipity16 · 09/02/2012 18:59

Thanks Toby for the information.
I've heard about the primary school & it's something we will be thinking about when its time for our youngest to go to school.
Only a few weeks to wait to see if we've got a place at the WLFS, fingers crossed.

TobyYoung · 09/02/2012 18:05

Not much enthusiasm for the WLFS here ? which is fine, not chippy, honest. For those that are interested in applying for a place in 2013 and beyond, you should bear in mind that we only admit 45% of our pupils according to straight line distance. 10% are admitted on musical aptitude, 30% via a lottery within a three-mile radius and 15% via a lottery within a three-to-five-mile radius. So even if you don't live close to the school, it's still worth applying for a lottery place.

I notice the posters here almost all assume that taxpayer-funded secondary schools give preference to in-borough residents and express surprise when it's pointed out that some school or other doesn't. In fact, no taxpayer-funded secondary school in England is allowed to give preference to in-borough residents. (Attending in-borough primaries is a separate issue.) That's been true since a landmark legal case in Greenwich. (Google "The Greenwich Agreement".) So don't assume that because a school is in a different borough to the one you live in that you won't get in. If you don't get in and subsequently discover that the school has discriminated against you because you're not resident in the same borough, you will have grounds for a successful appeal.

In addition, anyone with a child at a fee-paying school who's thinking about applying for a place in Year 7 at a taxpayer-funded school in 2013 should know that the deadline for doing so is October 31st, 2012. I've come across quite a few parents who don't know this and by the time they start thinking about taxpayer-funded schools for their DD or DS they've missed the deadline.

Another thing they're often not aware of: If your DD or DS is "out of year", i.e., either younger or older than is normal for a child in their year group, they shouldn't expect to remain either a year ahead or a year behind when transferring to a taxpayer-funded secondary. Most secondaries ? particularly the oversubscribed ones ? won't accept applications from out-of-year children. So if your DD or DS is a year behind, for instance, he/she will be rejected by most taxpayer-funded secondary schools if you apply at the beginning of Year 6 as too old for a place in Year 7 the following year. You'll need to apply when your DD or DS is beginning Year 5 at the fee-paying school. I'm always amazed that 99% of heads of fee-paying schools don't inform parents of this when they suggest moving their child up a year or keeping them back a year. The end result, whether intended by the head in question or not, is that you're then locked into the private sector through to 18.

This applies to some children at Jacques Prevert, too, who are sometimes out-of-year even though they're in the correct year from the French point of view. We've had to turn down applications from children at Jacques Prevert who, though they're at the beginning of the French equivalent of Year 6, are too young to apply for places at our school.

One last point: The West London Free School Academy Trust is applying to open a primary in Hammersmith in 2013. If you're going to be applying for a place in reception for your DD or DS in either 2013 or 2014 and think you might be interested in our primary, you can register your interest here:

www.westlondonfreeschool.co.uk/primary-school.html

If you fill in this form, we'll get back to you when the time comes to apply. Similar sort of ethos to the secondary: Core of traditional, academic subjects complemented by music, art, drama and sport. Most distinctive characteristic will be lots of specialised subject teachers so an above-average number of lessons will be delivered by subject specialists rather than class teachers, with the percentage increasing as your child moves up the school. All children at the primary will automatically qualify for places at the secondary and the sibling policy applies in both directions, i.e. we'll give priority to sibs whether they're applying for the primary or the secondary.

serendipity16 · 09/02/2012 17:59

We're in h&f & my DS is currently in yr6.
I felt like that when we were looking round the schools.
I'm nervous about what school my DS is going to get, he really wants to
go to the West London Free School.

kensingtonia · 08/02/2012 23:02

I concur! I spent the most miserable days of my life at that place. I go past it about once a week and I still feel sick I couldn't even bear to go and see it when we were looking at schools.

banditqueen · 08/02/2012 20:14

My old school too kensingtonia! Having looked around recently at the open day, I think DS would be more miserable there now than even I was many years ago (quite hard to beat) even if their results are probably better.

kensingtonia · 08/02/2012 18:54

Just wanted to say that as a current user of Holland Park - in some ways it is very good but there are downsides too, you need to look behind the spin. Burlington Danes (my old school) is on the up apparently. Hurlingham and Sion Manning seem to the schools that the kids around here who don't get into Holland Park go to as they both have poor reputations, I see kids from both on a daily basis and they seem ok. On the other hand I also see some kids (not all) from Chelsea Academy and Holland Park who are monsters. I have been inside the Chelsea building and it is bigger than it looks from going past. Phoenix used to be awful but it is in a really deprived area - I knew someone who worked there a few years ago and she thought the kids were really nice.

banditqueen · 08/02/2012 16:26

Hi ThreaderickDorrit, Tiffin is first preference but no chance as DS thinks he didn't do well in the tests, Holland Park next via art route but again art isn't actually DS' thing so very unlikely... So we are prepared to be disappointed... Hammersmith Academy is very close and WLFS not so far, so I'm sure we'll get one of those two options. Pinning my hopes on independent school bursary places.

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