3 science's at GCSE - D of Ed guidance?

dreamingofsun a very long time ago you needed a modern foreign language to go to Oxford or Cambridge which meant that many selective schools insisted on students taking one and many other schools did too for their upper sets. Both universities abolished that requirement eons ago and there followed a gradual decline in language take up at GCSE with many children/schools preferring to take/offer perceived easier subjects. Just recently there has been a swing back towards languages with the government including a language in the ebacc and UCL requiring a modern language GCSE for entry to all their degree courses details here. It's not a hard requirement in that you can take a language course when there instead, but they quite probably will favour applicats who do have a language unless there are good plausible reasons for not taking one (eg school doesn't offer it). As far as I know UCL is the only university with this requirementat the moment, so your french teacher isn't entirely right, but there is some suspicion that more universities may follow suit and require ebacc as an entry requirement in the future, but my opinion is that if they were to do this they would be morally obliged to give at least 4 years notice so that children choosing GCSEs knew what they might be closing the door to at the time of making their choices. It still might be safer to take a language though in my opinion - they are not as difficult as they used to be.

I hope your ds gets his science choice - did the school say how over subscribed it usually is and how they make the choices if it is? I can't help thinking if you keep persistantly asking them awkward questions like this and pointing out that the disrupted science education they've given him so far has disadvantaged him in the selection criteria (if it has) that your ds will be more likely to be chosen for the triple option than if you just wait and see.

I'm not in education, although I have been a science teacher in the past. I'm just interested in how these things work.

Woohoo, thank you Roisin, that's so helpful.

my ds spent year 10 doing core science (all 3 taught separately by different science teachers) and is now doing additional science in year 11, taught in the same way. He will then have 2 GCSEs.

He has the ability to do the triple, but hasn't ever really enjoyed science, and isn't going in a science direction for his a levels, so he was advised to stick to doing it this way.

My DCs aren't allowed to do anything other than triple science. Better preparation for A level (if they want to do science a levels, that is).

Can you establish why they only allow only a few to do triple science? Can your DS get into the select few by working really hard this year?

dreamingofsun it could be staff, or possibly laboratory availability (although you would think they could timetable some science lessons in ordinary classrooms they don't always like to do this) or even just an arbitrary limit.

Good luck with your battle - wanting to do sciences is one of the best reasons for doing them in my opinion. He's far more likely to succeed at a subject he enjoys and has chosen than another that he doesn't enjoy and has been told he has to do instead. Do you definitely know the school only want him to take double or are you guessing that at the moment? Let us know how you get on.

DD1 14 (yr10) went for the triple, and so far is the best choice she could have made. She is NOT a straight A student, school steers all of top sets into triple when chosing options, but they do get the option to move down a pathway and take double. They also insist on at least level 6a in Maths & Science as well as 5a in English.

Pros are - Specialist teachers, separate grades for each subject (she ended yr 9 working at a B overall, is currently working at A*/A for Physics, A for Chemistry and B/C for Biology), an extra academic GCSE.

The only con we can think of is loss of another option choice. Alhough for her, that would have been drama or catering. She has managed to include Ebacc subjects (Geography & French) but not a technology as Music was not negotiable.

So can be a good choice if reasonble at science, and struggling to find other academic options to suit. And if there is a significant in-balance between expected grades in the three sciences.

I would have thought that making the majority of pupils do the double and saving the triple for the select few would be for benefit of league tables rather than the other way round.

double science is fine for virtually anything ( as long it is core and additional, NOT applied). There is no reason to to triple, it is another case of the school putting children in for something that looks good on the league table, rather than benefits the child. Most schools will allow some of the most able to do triple, but it isn't really a case of "they don't have the staff", more that there are very very few students who would genuinky benefit.

Busymummy, your suggestion isn't silly at all, but impossible with the current specs. You need to know which module you are studying for before you start, and there is not a lot of overlap between, for example, a biology GCSE, and the biology component of core science GCSE. All modules are now disbanded now anyway.

It works slightly differently on different exam boards busymummy. In order to do 3 separate sciences you need to do more science papers than to get 2 GCSEs in science and additional science, but on some boards (eg AQA) it would be possible to sit all the papers as you describe and then certificate the most favorable 2 or 3 GCSEs as you wished (though it would be rather a waste of the extra work done for the separate sciences part not to use it). On other boards (eg OCR) you have to decide at the start which option you are doing as although the two options have a lot of syllabus in common the way the exams are structured is different. This will all change from 2014 onwards when all the exams will have to be sat at the end of the course at the same time as they are certificated (I think).

BTW my DC has Biology 70 minutes per week Chemistry 70 mins per week and Physics 70 mins per week and every week there is a 70 minute lesson of science where it will be biology physics or chemistry on a rota

I am confused. Is seperate sciences a different paper from additional sciences? My DC does seperate sciences having just done core science -but for core sciences she still was taught the 3 sciences seperately iyswim.
Sorry that I do not know anything about the system but can they not just sit all the modules for each of the sciences then at the end decide whether to put in for an additional science GCSE or a GCSE in each seperate science then you would know whether it is better to go for 2x A* or aab? Sorry if I am not explaining myself properly or what Ive put sounds silly!

That's a lot of science bigbluebus!

DS seems to be doing fine on his 4 hours, I think the further modules (P7, B7 and C7) are challenging but DS is on the 8th of the first 9 modules and none of that has caused any problems. The science itself isn't that difficult the problem comes with the exam technique and the fact that some of the questions seem more like an english comprehension than science but that is a completely different thread

DS chose Triple Science as one of his options. He does & 7 1/2 hrs science a week (2 wk timetable - 7 hrs one week, 8 hrs the next). At his school they were asked to write down why they had chosen specific options and only those who wanted to follow a science base career were encouraged to choose the Triple option. By choosing this subject, he had one less choice at the other options as this is equvalent of 3 x GCSE's where as combined science is 2 x GCSE's. They were also told it was a very intensive course, hence the need for level 6 in KS3 and I'm sure they need to be good at Maths too (DS in top set doing GCSE 1 yr early).

DD did triple science but it was NOT counted as an option. They started by doing and extra class after school each week - but soon dropped that and decided the kids were capable of doing it in the same time allotted to the rest of the year who were taking the double. This meant she still got to choose 4 option subjects - complete free choice with no option blocks! Don't know how such a huge school managed that one (10 form intake).

DS's school is grammar so again they all do triple and then choose 3 + a compulsory MFL.

I agree that 2 As are better than say AAB, but also, if you are say rubbish at Chemistry, you could get A A* C rather than BB if your Chem result brings all the others down.

Ds is in year 10 and triple science isn't an option choice you just do whichever science your group is doing. Out of six science classes, 3 are triple, 2 double and 1 takes the Btec option. They started whichever course they were on after Easter in year 9 and DS does 2 weeks of biology with a specialist teacher and then 2 weeks of chemistry etc etc. (5x50mins in a week). Even when the school only offered double science the top groups still had time to fit in an AS (science in society) as well. According to a presentation we had at school 67% of DSs year got a level 6 or above in science and most of them seem to be doing the triple.

I think its a shame to make the triple an option choice because certainly DD1 didn't know she would go on to study science at university when she chose her options in year 9.

To coconutty,

My Head of Science in a grammar school says triple science is not necessary
(even if he were to do A'level science) and some students want a broader spread of GCSEs.

Follow what he is enthusiastic about and he'll do well.

gelatinous Your post reminded me that the school did say that they would be covering part of the Science GCSE courses in Y9 I was listening honest, I just have a truly awful memory...

DS1 wants to study Engineering so will have to do Maths and Physics and another Science based A'Level but was seriously considering doing Drama at GCSE - he's definitely decided on Art anyway, but decided on doing an additional foreign language instead. I think he's got a nice mix of subjects, not too biased one way or the other.

At ds1's school they have 5x50 min lesson for the core science (dual award).
If they do triple they have 3 extra lessons. It amounts to nearly 1/3 of their curriculum time.

In other schools top sets do triple with no extra teaching time.

I was referring to schools where the 'triple'part of the science is timetabled against other options and therefore takes up a GCSE choice rather than where it can be done as an extra Grimma. That is school dependent usually.

On the other hand, bright children who do want to do science A levels should arguably consider diversifying their GCSE choices by choosing an arty subject instead

Bright children should be able to do the arty subject in addition to triple science if they want. DDs school they all do triple science but they do 11 plus citizenship so they all also do at least one MFL, humanity and tech and there's still time to do art, music, drama if they wish.