Downsizing to educate privately - any pearls?

I know DCs in the state sector whose maths would beat any DC, regardless of school. The brightest was going into the comprehensive for lessons from year 5. He was a county chess champion.

when they get to grammar school they will keep up and thrive.

I hope that you aware that lots of very clever DCs don't get a place!

smallwhitecat, I'd say it's partly a question of whether you were going to spend that money on new cars or further educational opportunities for your children

my parents never had a car of any kind

but they took us inter-railing through Europe to Greece where my dad guided us round the archaeological sites, they kept a well stocked library, the house was full of musical instruments and my brother had music lessons from a well known maestro

I can't afford private school fees anyway, but I wouldn't want to be completely without spare cash because I would always think how much I can do for dc's education with a bit of extra cash

ultimately it is a question of who you trust most to provide extra cultural enrichment for your children, yourself or the school

some people like to trust the school entirely, I like to be in on the act

" it's pathetic at the age of 9 they aren't doing basic maths. My kids aren't genius' by any stretch but i do know the basics have been covered now and when they get to grammar school they will keep up and thrive"

Two things. What do you mean by basic Maths?

And at the "when" they get to grammar school. Don't count your chickens!

Not basic maths? My DS is in a state primary Year 5. He is in the top set and is doing the same level of maths a friend's DD is doing at her selective prep school. His spelling is superior, his writing too. And his friends are nice whereas my friend's DD has been bullied by her very posh mates. So let's not be so black and white. There are a few good schools in the state sector, you just have to find them and do anything to be in the catchment. We did, we moved.
In terms of secondary, I don't know yet. Local comp is not very good. But grammars are a good option.

We've struggle to pay for private prep, due to housing costs and 4 kids mainly but anyway. Every time i've tried to look at state since I cannot bear the thought of going back, the difference really is that great, the whole ethos is so very different.
I hear what the kids down the road get up to at the state school my DC's used to attend and I cringe, it's pathetic at the age of 9 they aren't doing basic maths. My kids aren't genius' by any stretch but i do know the basics have been covered now and when they get to grammar school they will keep up and thrive.

My mum was private educated and from a very affulent background but when she married my dad who went to a state grammar, he had a relatively good job with a decent enough salary but not enough to get 2 kids thru prv primary and secondary education. All my cousins and parents friends children were privately educated and I always felt different as at weekends and holidays the people we socialised as a family attended prv school. I went to a great primary but was not pushed enough to pass the 11plus as I was lazy, so I ended up going to the local secondary modern and I felt very out of place and I was bullied for being the posh kid. I hated my parents at the time for not having the money to send me to the school my cousins were at, but I do think it made me more appreciative of different classes and families and different ways of life but academically it did me no favours. We had a good life as kids with a nice house, 2 cars, nice holidays, days out etc but if we had had pv education our lifestyle would have been alot more basic. I think if you can afford it and still have a comfortable liife it is the way to go but if other things that are important to you have to suffer then I think you have to think very carefully!! I didnt do A levels and worked in administration and married a manual worker and altho we dont struggle there is no way we could even consider prv education.

I often wonder how different my life would have been if I had gone to prv school? I am very content with life and wouldnt want it any other way but still can't help wondering!!

No homework? Where do I sign?

I didn't find there was much connection between homework at primary and homework at secondary. That phrase "they are on their own" sounds very scary, but all it means is they are growing up, they can be expected to take a bit more responsibility and will be encouraged to do so- just as they can be expected to take a bit more responsibility for transport arrangements and lunch money.

There is a big big difference between your Yr 4 dd and the Yr 7 dd you will have in 3 years time: chances are they almost totally different people. What your dd can or cannot do now says nothing about what she will be able or not able to do when she is almost a teenager. And what a certain school expects of you now says very little of what they will expect of her in 3 years time.

I think that you should stop listening to rumours and actually visit the schools. DC's comprehensive mentored pupils who were falling behind, or not working to expected levels. They were not on their own.

"All I've heard as a primary mum, is that once they are in secondary they are on their own "

No! Most definitely not IME. Because schools are terrified that their pupils will fail to get the 5 A* to C grades at GCSE. I haven't found that DS1 is 'on his own' in the slightest. He's set to get reasonable (not brilliant) grades so they are determined he won't let them down. I've had letters, emails, voice mails from various teachers over the last 12m.

BTW homework is not worth getting so stressed about in primary.

Gosh I really baulk at the words 'selling our house would be a small price to pay'.
Er, no, it wouldn't, it would be a massive deal, and one that I'm not sure your children would thank you for when you can't get back onto the housing ladder and so are living in insecure rented accommodation into your dotage and reliant on them to save you from homelessness when your landlord decides to throw you out. Especially since with their university debts, they'll be unlikely to buy their own place either.
I'm not saying it's not the right thing to do - I've no idea of the relative merits of your private and state secondaries, but it's really not a 'small price'.

You sound as if you are panicking to me. Personally I would be thrilled if mine were at a primary school without homework. Why are you setting so much store by homework? If they work hard all day why do the need more of the same? What do you do in the time instead? Do you play chess and card games/board games with them, let them cook meals, read with them, have discussions, play word games, let them write stories etc etc etc. Or do you do none of the above and just feel happy if they have a string of worksheets?
I would be very clear about what you want from education before you start downsizing. Do the DCs want this-I would hate my parents to make 'sacrifices' for me-it is way too much pressure. (if you do go ahead, never mention that you have made sacrifices and expect them to deliver).
I would go for self motivation and keep my lifestyle and house.

I would at least look at schools first. There are good and bad private schools-just as there are good and bad state schools.

It's also important to remember that creating an impression of" bumbling along, disengaged and unstimulated" is the main ambition of many teenagers! To listen to many of my dd's friends you would think they are constantly bored, being taught nothing by crap teachers. But I know that they are actually hard working, engaged, switched on to learning, and on course for As and A*s.

wordfactory I think the bit that sunshine has glossed over is the fact that in the background the children who pull their fingers out in the GCSE year are being well educated all along. In a good environment, whether the young people are working or not, they will still be absorbing a lot of the teaching.

A case in point was our own ds - horizontal for most exams until y11 but incredibly well taught at an incredibly good school and when the time came he had the intelligence and the foundations in place to sprint more than ably across the line.

sunshine I don't dispute at all what you say, but I do question whether that is a good thing.

An excellent education cannot consist of bumbling along, disengaged and unstimulated, then at the last minute hard graft and A*s. Surely that's exactly what we don't want for an education for our DC?

A better, more rounded, education, would surely involve an engaged and stimulated child throughout, whatever the results at the end? It will serve them much better on the long run no?

OP what you describe sounds very familiar. Don't leave it to the school, get stuck in there and start teaching them some self-discipline and enjoyment of academic work, otherwise even if they move they'll sink against children who have been doing it for years.

I'd downsize for the right school, but definitely not just because it's private. If it's non selective - what is it offering, except segregation of rich and poor? (Not saying it isn't offering other benefits but I'd never assume a school is better because it's private.) Are there no selective schools in your area? having something to work towards might be an incentive.

I'm a teacher and have taught in an 'outstanding' rural secondary and a 'good' inner city one. If I could have a pound for the number of 'clever but lazy' kids who suddenly start to work in Year 11 and get a string of A*s then I would be a rich woman.

It's about maturity and growing up and I often despair of kids in Y9 and Y10 and they usually deliver the goods in the end. If you have extensive savings then go ahead and waste them but please don't sacrifice the nice and fun things in life to send your kids private in the mistaken belief that it will better serve lazy kids. Lazy kids from nice families, who are supportive and encourage them, do 'get it' by the time it comes to GCSEs.

Have a bit of faith in your children and your parenting - it's probably a lot more significant than £50kplus

"I think we do need as a family, to visit the local state school, and glean how the DD's feel about the options. Would they prefer to go private and forgoe considerable family outings/lifestyle ...or go state and (jolly well pull their fingers out) ...be fully responsible for their own self motivation, and academic achievement...ie no-one at state is going to hassle you to do your homework, if you don't see the value in handing it in."

Do you know for a fact that the local secondary is like this? You can jump to conclusions from what the local primaries are like.

Ds' primary was very lax about homework and ds is as lazy as they come. In secondary non-completion of homework spells automatic detention. I find it focuses his mind wonderfully

I imagine what worries you is the idea that unless your dcs are set on a certain track from the start they will always be the same. But human beings are very flexible, and growing up means you will constantly have to adjust your ideas of what is acceptable to the people around you.

So I would check out those state secondaries before I make a decision. And unless your dcs are on board, there is a real risk they will resent the family down-sizing and stop making an effort. You can take a horse to water and all that....

I agree with Chandon.

OP I don't think you can tell how your children will work once they get to secondary. Our DS was very keen on work at primary (Y3). After year 3 he was moved to a very selective London Independent and it became apparent that he was not particularly motivated to do much work. He is naturally economical in relation to effort. He has however been exceptionally well educated there and very happy. He pulled his finger our in Y11 surprising everyone and pulled down 11 A*s and 1 A.

DD who is top average did not pass the entrance exams for the local high schools and we compromised and sent her to a local state school with an excellent reputation. She astounded us by working hard and rising quickly to the top. Unfortunately there was some very poor behaviour and I did not like the head's ethos and at the end of Y8 we transferred her to the independent sector - gentle, small school, but she is working hard, so much happier and now flying socially and academically.

So, DS hard worker at primary turned out to a be lazy sod. DD who coudl not be persuaded to work at primary had her lights switched on at secondary and is grafting and may catch up with lazy brother.

I'm not sure you can tell at primary. In your shoes I think I would try out the state sector and add in the extras from the savings on school fees. I think you need to be aware of expectations and career options later on. I went to a very selective grammar school until 16 and then the local public school for 6th form. It was a very long time ago (51 now) but it was notable that boys from the grammar with two to three middle of the road A'Levels were pushed to work in banks or the lower levels of the civil service. Boys with the same achievements in the public school were pushed into things like chartered surveying - and some of them I still know and are very successful.

As far as downsizing goes - if you end up having to do it I think you should - but only if you have to and if you are outside London it is likely to be avoidable. If you will struggle to do it I would plug the gaps, and save the money for the university years and give your girls a flying start and pay their uni fees for them so they start work with no debt.

Sorry, that was long.

OP, please do not ask tour children to choose between private or state, and therefore making THEM responsible for selling the house or not

I think it is unfair to make them responsible. It is way too much pressure...

I have not told my children that we now pay for their school. they will of course find out, but I will never ever tell them that they need to apreciate how much I am paying for their education, or that we cannot go on holiday as their school is so expensive ( parents do talk to their children like that, and I think it is unfair to heap so much pressure and responsibility on them)

Please let me know what you think? It always makes me so sad.

Visit the state secondary school - they are much MUCH stricter than when I was there. Look at their discipline policy. My DS gets detention for even his shirt being untucked!!

" ...or go state and (jolly well pull their fingers out) ...be fully responsible for their own self motivation, and academic achievement...ie no-one at state is going to hassle you to do your homework, if you don't see the value in handing it in."

Not sure why you think state schools are like this- certainly the ones I know about aren't!

I don't know if I've missed it, but I don't understand why you are so very concerned about homework. My dd goes to a very high performing state school and does not have a lot of homework- the school's philosophy is thwt they work very hard indeed during the school day, so apart from sometimes practicing new things in Maths and learning vocabulary and so on, homework is mostly just finishing things off and doing a bit of preparatory reading. Or revising for exams, obviously. Or in non academic subjects, actually- I think she's probably done more art homework this year than any other subject!

I didn't ever have homework at primary school - and went to 3 different schools because we moved. Most of my friends say the same. So primary homework is quite a new thing and frankly not particularly necessary in my view/experience.