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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

To board or not to board...

60 replies

HolofernesesHead · 28/12/2011 14:19

...that is the question! And if so, which one?

Here's the background: dd is 9, in yr 5. We are moving in June (already sorted) to a vilalge in Hertfordshire. It has a village school that has already said it will take her and ds (7 y o). It's v. good, 'outstanding' by Ofsted's standards (not that that's everything), v. nurturing etc.

There is no obvious feeder secondary school - the children from there go to schools in literally four different towns. So lots of choice potentially.

We are moving because of my work which is a four-year fixed term contract, so we know that we'll be moving again in 2016, when dd is just coming up to GCSEs. I might find a job in the same area - but then again, might not. Dh works full time too (in a v. central location in London, so geographically neutral in that we won't be moving because of his work). As we both work full time, boarding school is affordable, but it might be tricky to support the dc financially through university if we put all our finanical eggs in the boarding school basket. (I know this might make me sound barking mad to be talking about university when my dc are not yet into double digits, but there you go...)

So the reason we are thinking boarding school might be the way to go is that it'd guarantee continuity between living in Herts and wherever we are after that, and it'd hopefully give the dc a great childhood / education. I am pretty much in favour of the state system generally, and part of me would feel disloyal (I am state educated, and have no regrets or bad feelings about that). Dd is v. much in favour of boarding school, and ds is picking up on her enthusiasm. The local schools (in the 4 different towns) range from excellent to really not what I'd want, so it feels a bit of a lottery, and unfortunately for us because we are very much in between all those places, we could well come bottom of the list for the good schools.

So WWYD? And can you think of any boarding schools in the south east that you'd recommend?

OP posts:

Original poster

HolofernesesHead · 30/12/2011 10:53

I think for us, location is a big factor - we want to be able to give our dc the best education available to them, but we want to do so in such a way that we get to see them as much as poss, given that both dh and I work ft.

Academically, I think it's a moot point which of these schools is 'best' - let's face it, they're all excellent, and have different characteristics / ethoses that endear them to different people. A good friend of mine who went to Eton wishes he'd gone to a much smaller school - he found the size of it terrifying, but that's just one person's reaction. So I guess I'd be listening carefully to my dcs' responses to the schools we visit, and take seriously the things they notice / find difficult.

In terms of university preparation, I am less concerned about that as I feel pretty well placed to guide the dc through that quagmire!

We have decided to visit Haileybury first, and then take it from there. THanks for all your thoughts!

OP posts:

Yellowstone · 30/12/2011 10:44

Bargain then pete .

peteneras · 30/12/2011 10:36

Well Yellowstone, there's only one place to go for playing fields and you know that.

The rich extra curricular opportunities are thrown in for free.

Yellowstone · 30/12/2011 10:11

The only point to me of sending my DC to any of the famous public schools would be for the hugely rich extra curricular opportunities that those schools, with all theirs funds, can provide. Small class sizes possibly too.

Nothing else which can't be provided in the less privileged, more meritorious state school sector.

I'd be arguing about playing fields, not academics .

peteneras · 30/12/2011 09:44

What I do for a living does not detract me from my personal opinions (often supported with facts and figures) about the different facets of the British educational system, Happygardening. Rest assured I?m highly trained to look for minute details in my chosen career, hence my last posting.

Quote: "I never had any intention of discussing exam results which have been done to death recently on MM pateneras brought the subject up."

Oh, did I, HG?

Next, you said, "I was not trying to start a debate about which school is the most academic or not."

But the trouble is you think forum members cannot read between the lines. Who was it who invented the terms, super bright, very bright and bright in relation to the 3 well known public schools? I never knew schools could be so neatly categorised into those 3 headings you told us.

It is not the first time you have felt compelled to use such terms or similar every time Winchester is mentioned, e.g. very academic/super bright, etc. Just go back to all your postings on MN to see what I mean.

What utter balderdash!

All I did in my last posting was to show Win Col is not as academic as you would have us believe, not according to the FT anyway, as there are at least two dozen other schools which did better. The league table was provided as evidence in black and white; it was not an exercise to show which is the better academic (public) school; if anything, there are a couple of state schools on that list which happen to be located on my backyard, namely, Henrietta Barnett School (85%) and Queen Elizabeth?s School (79%) which out performed at least two or even all three of the public schools in question. None of the locals here refer to these schools as super bright or very academic like you do all the time Winchester.

And then of course you begin to split hairs like suggesting only As and Pre-U count for anything. Well, like I said, the rest of the world don?t see it that way ? not least the Financial Times. And if you really want to talk about Pre-U and nothing but Pre-U, let me point out that Win Col?s nemesis at Windsor do Pre-U too and their percentage A?s of nearly 60% eclipsed those of a mere over 50%.

All these, of course, have absolutely nothing to do with the OP's question of whether to board or not to board. So I don't know what significance those ridiculous categories of schools you invented have to do with the OP's question.

FizzyChristmasFairyDust · 29/12/2011 17:47

How about the Hockerill school then? Convenient for East Anglia and it has a good reputation from what I've heard.

FinnRoe · 29/12/2011 13:04

Sorry Happygardening, the comment about league tables was aimed at peteneras not you!

I'm sorry if this comes out the wrong way but I really hate this term super bright. I personally went to a private secondary but not one that was selective. It still got 50% of the students achieving A grades and stimulated everyone to the required level - this thread seems to be suggesting that if your child is gifted the only place they can achieve is at a famous public school.

Yellowstone · 29/12/2011 10:51

My two DN went to Haileybury; it seems ok.

Yellowstone · 29/12/2011 10:50

Agree with Colleger that people over-rate the difficulty of getting in to some of the allegedly hyper-selective schools. The schools themselves fuel this idea, as does this forum.

League tables are over-rated too; agree about the need to look at the detail.

Anyhow, as long as a school is ambitious for its students as individuals, does it serve any purpose to jostle for position as to which of two or three very good schools is 'best'?

Colleger · 29/12/2011 10:00

If you're happy to move at Year 7 then I would send them to the local school and then apply for Haileybury.

Original poster

HolofernesesHead · 29/12/2011 09:56

Hmmm...part of my worry about boarding school is that if it is too academically selective, the dc won't get in and that will damage their self-esteem - or one will get in and not the other. They are both bright, and without wishing to boast (!) I've done well academically, but even so...

I am not so bothered about moving the dc at yr 7 - I accept that if we end up opting for state schools, that will be a definite anyway. It's more the inevitable move between yr 9 and yr 10 that concerns me. Yes, we'd want the dc to come home for weekends as much as poss and we'd be okay with the idea of driving to get them - dh works very regular office hours and could head off to get them easily on a Saturday. More thinking to do! I'm feeling the pressure to make the right decision pretty soon though - am aware that we need to apply sooner rather than later. I know myself well enough to know though, that if I make a decision in a panic because of time pressure and it's not the right one, I'll end up changing my mind anyway...done that a few times!

OP posts:

Colleger · 29/12/2011 08:43

I think you've misinterpreted me HG. I wasn't saying you were selective, and if you had a super bright boy then Win should be on the list but I think some people may be put off Win if they think their child is not super bright. I have to say that in recent years I've been stunned at the boys who have gained entry from our prep school as I was of the belief one had to have an IQ above 140. So I was just saying not to discount it, although I am dreading DS assessment and should really have got him some tutoring over the holidays rather than shooting soldiers on the Xbox for eight hours a day!

Happygardening · 29/12/2011 08:15

I was not trying to start a debate about which school is the most academic or not. The OP said her DC is in year 5 and didn't want to move her again at year 7 hence a prep till 13, having full boarded both of mine from 7 I am now unsure about the benefits of full boarding very young children, that she may move again for work in four years time and that she asked for suggestions for schools. I suggested a variety of full boarding schools as she could for example relocate to Broadstairs in Kent and find her children at school in Oxford so would need full boarding and gave my views and the views of many i have met (including quite a few parents with boys at both Eton and Win Coll) on selection of schools. This was not meant as a my school is more selective than you school exercise.

Colleger · 29/12/2011 00:37

I'd be interested to know more about Haileybury it is very close to me and especially if music school doesn't work out. Does anyone know if bright kids ate stretched? My only info is that they are good with SLD but I don't know if they are poor with the gifted.

Colleger · 29/12/2011 00:34

Dustylaw · 29/12/2011 00:20

It sounds to me like you are very well placed. Send them both to the village primary school, enjoying having them with you in a good school on your doorstep with local friends plus saving on fees at the same time. Thereafter, look at sending them to Haileybury which has an intake at age 11\Yr 7. The Year 7 intake at Haileybury is both day and boarding and there are dedicated Year 7 and 8 boarding houses ie they don't go straight into the senior houses. Quite a few will be coming from primary schools so no disadvantage not to have been at a prep school. No Saturday school for the Year 7 and 8s so very easy to spend the weekend at home. Main intake arrives at age 13 and Saturday school and matches kick in so then tends to be fuller boarding. Definitely a nice school as well as a good school.

Colleger · 29/12/2011 00:12

I would say not to discount Winchester if you are concerned about your child's academic abilities because it is not filled with only the super bright. Of the six that went last year and the eight that have got in this year at DS prep, only one was super bright. The others were brightish and the siblings of boys already at Winchester would probably not have got in if they didn't have a brother there - this is very much not the case at Eton, unfortunately, and I know many siblings who have had rejections and no only two boys out of 20 have been given A places in recent years. That said I'd be stunned if my other son got into Winchester, because although on paper he is gifted, he is useless at entrance tests!

It's worth remembering that a huge number of super bright boys often do not apply to Winchester. I'd only ever consider Eton and Win for my son but I know of potential scholars that go off to non-selective schools because the parents do not like Winchester or Eton.

Happygardening · 29/12/2011 00:07

From experience we've found that if you are going to have to full board the majority of the time then it works better if everyone else is in the same boat. DS2 became unhappy at his prep when the number of full boarders declined to a handful. Those who are able to go home for the weekend lead a slightly different life than those that are unable to. Only full boarding schools are rare because many parents don't want this inflexibility and like the OP want be involved in their children's education.
When choosing a boarding school for your DC's you need to be sure in your mind what sort of boarding you are looking for and make this one of the most important factors when making you choice boarding will only work for you and your DC's if it fits in with what you want. So for example if you want your children home every weekend enjoying family life choose a school with a high number of flexi/weekly boarders. FinnRoe is right in that ultimately this is probably more important than academic selection/excellence.
Many excellent state schools offer boarding but none that I know of are only full boarding so beware if this is what you are looking for.

Happygardening · 28/12/2011 23:41

I never had any intention of discussing exam results which have been done to death recently on MM pateneras brought the subject up. In my first posting I was just giving the OP my opinion on boarding and boarding schools.

FinnRoe · 28/12/2011 23:20

Tbh I would be more surprised if these super selective schools got anything less than the results they achieve! Personally if I were to send my children private I would chose a less (if at all) selective school that achieved good results as it would be a better representation of the teaching etc.

Happygardening · 28/12/2011 23:16

pateneras I have no idea what you do for a living my occupation requires me to not just look at the big picture but look at the micro detail as well. If you look carefully at the results published by the three schools you mentioned what is really interesting is the % of A's let face it anyone can get A's even my sons non selective comp has a high % of A grades. I understand the new A will be the grade much sought after by universities and is seen as a true test of academic ability. I'm affraid to Eton and Harrow did not score so well there less than 40% and that Win Coll can proudly stand along side those other two great academic institutions Westminster and St Paul's with over 50 % getting A or even A* and of course Win Coll are the only ones to only offer the much harder Pre U as well. So all in all their achievement is even more commendable.

Original poster

HolofernesesHead · 28/12/2011 22:12

Thanks, everyone. Fizzy, my dd is v. keen, and my ds is enthusiastic in short bursts (usually he's got his mind on other things!)

One definite decision we've made is that we would want them to be at the same school - they are v. close and it'd be wrong to split them up - so it has to be co-ed. I wouldn't consider taking a job overseas until the dc have finished school, so we'd want to be able to spend a fair amount of time together as a family. My work has quite a lot of time flexibility, so ideally I'd like to be as involved as poss, so I'm not too keen on them being at a school too far away from home - it's most likely that we'll be living in the south, or east Anglia long term.

Yes HG, it is a big financial commitment, I'm very aware of that! The other thread I've been posting on today is a New Year frugality thread! :)

Thanks again for all your thoughts.

OP posts:

peteneras · 28/12/2011 21:59

'Boys for the super bright Winchester the very bright Eton the bright maybe Harrow . . .'

Maybe the FT and I are living on planet Mars. I see even good old Harrow (77%) the so-called bright is outshining the 'super bright' (75%) in this FT Secondary Schools 2011 percentage A*/A table. Never mind about the very bright Eton (84%).

nokissymum · 28/12/2011 21:05

I live in herts. I'd strongly consider bishops stortford college, very academic Indy (co-ed) takes children from age 4-18yrs, offers day/flexi/full boarding, very good reputation. I'd also take a look at Heath mount prep, takes children from nursery a ge to 13yrs, fantastic school in beautiful surroundings, acres of countryside) but not impressed with the headmaster, offers boarding fantastic facilities, and feeds mainly haileybury and bishops stortford college with a good number going off to for upping ham, Oundle, saint Albans etc.

Another good sec Indy is saint Edmunds college in ware, lovely school and caters for all abilities, not very selective (45% admission pass rate at CE) but very good ethos especially f you are a catholic ( you do not have to be catholic though) good facilities in idyllic surroundings, again takes children from 4-18yrs.

Edgegrove also very good, offer more boarding than heath mount, I think heath mount board from yr 5 but please check. Storming prep also has a good reputation but for girls only.

A lot to think about!

FizzyChristmasFairyDust · 28/12/2011 20:47

What do your DCs think of the idea of boarding?

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