BTEC sports ? really = 4 GCSE's?

amerryscot

Was that to me? There is nothing magical about it, GCSEs are the best known Level 2 qualification and other level 2 qualificaions are often described as being equivelant to GCSEs because that is something everyone understands.

sorry, but can't remember when I said you can get a C without doing any lessons...

I don't teach science (thank god!) and the colleges around here do accept students onto AS sciences if they have a Distinction in the BTEC Science. But there is a place for BTECs along side traditional GCSEs

I would also like to add I have never worked for Edexcel but I am someone who has seen the benefits of having BTECs and as I have delivered BTECs, GNVQs (showing my age!), GCSE, AS, A2 I am in a position to appreciate the amount of work involved and the higher order skills that needs to be demonstrated in order to achieve the high grades in the Diploma. As such I get annoyed when BTECs are just treated with utter contempt after seeing the effort that my students put in to achieve

no idea what you teach cricketbalss, but it certainly ain't science
We don't allow students who have btec to do AS sciences, and there is no way on earth they would be able to get a C without doing any lessons. sounds very odd to me (wonders does cricketball actually work for edexcel setting btecs and so wants to big them up)

Also meant to add re the BTEC sport - at DD's school, that or BTEC Dance is compulsory for all the current year 10's. So the top academic pathway are typically doing that on top of 9 GCSEs (6 core, 3 options) and OCR ICT.

The BTEC Sport or Dance is covered in the 2 hout core PE time. They have been told it is worth between 1 and 4 GCSE's.

AmerryScott - re Sciences

DD is in yr10 doing OCR triple science.
School have messed up slightly in putting their whole year group in for the first core modules (PI,C1,B1) last year. They were supposed to sit P2,C2,B2 in January 2012, but the school have since realised that OCR will not award 4 science GCSE's so have scrapped this for those taking triple.

As the work so far war on the old syllabus, they are now having to rush through the first units again in the new syllabus. As far as i know they will be taking units 1 to 3 in May, with the remainder in year 11. As they have 7 hours of science a week, this is doable (triple science did mean losing another option though).

DD says the double science students are in more of a mess as it is unclear whether they can have Core in the old syllabus and Additional in the new.

It's not the course itself - it's saying that they are magically equivalent to multiple GCSEs.

amerryscot how could a qualification that predates GCSE be designed to bump up GCSE results?

Thank you very much for explaining all of this. I am not concerned about DS doing linear GCSEs. I think it will suit him better. If the curriculum did change so much that DS had to drop another subject, it wouldn't bother me because he will be doing a lot of GCSEs anyway (13) which I think is too stressful.

The school are going to have a meeting in March to explain what is going on, but it is nice to have some understanding of it now.

sagger; the point of BTEC is applying knowledge to actually vocational situations rather than being sports fanatic.

He will do all his exams in June of Year 11, in addition to controlled assessments.

We simply do not know who the specifications will change. I am not risking starting my Year 9s until there is clarity. I am doing a hybrid KS3/KS4 course at the moment - the learning objectives for KS3, using material and extension from KS4.

Thanks. DS will be doing WJEC. There would have been 3 exams - one in June year 10, one in January year 10 and one in June year 11. Will they now all be done in June of year 11?

I assumed the course content would not change that much, but it seems from posts on here that is not the case.

My dd did a BTEC PE or Sports or something. I didn't take much notice because she has a complex heart disease, a dodgy leg and sport isn't even on her radar.
She got a Distinction. Go figure

amerry - whilst I do not agree with your opinion on vocational qualification and the merits of them I do agree with your statement that it is a mess for year 9 students.

I have had to re-do my options booklet page without knowing what is happening in my subject and despite my protests to SLT to hold off the options procedure and the curriculum mapping for this year group until we have a clear picture it is like the blind leading the blind as they are intent on starting the process asap.

The only advice I can give year 9 parents is to take a very close look at the statements coming from the DfE in terms of the changes happening and ensure that their school is focusing on their students needs rather than the headline figures...

It depends what you mean by Engineering, raspberry.

If it is one of the traditional four branches, Electrical, Mechanical, Civil and Chemical, then the university is very important. Most top employers for these disciplines only look as far as Russell Group unless there is some sentimentality towards a local university.

sorry should have read does not have an external examination

Milly,

If he is not doing exams now, that is fine, although the specifications are still subject to change. We won't have the new draughts until February earliest.

I have decided, on speaking to Edexcel and taking their advice, not to start my Y9 triple scientists on their GCSEs until there is more clarity. They will probably end up having to do the extra modules after school and at lunchtimes, as we don't timetable to do the complete triple course in Y10/11, which would mean the students losing one of their options and their portfolio lacking breadth.

Edexcel admitted that it was a mess for Year 9, and not much better for Year 10 (the guinea pig year). They also shared concerns that schools did not understand the structure of the assessment and the 40% rule for Year 10, and the linear move for Year 9. Given that the QCA (as was) has a stranglehold on these qualifications, I imagine the situation is the same for AQA and OCR.

there is a big change happening that the full details are not being released until next year. In general, instead of module tests, exams taken during the course it will revert back (think to the old O level!) end of course exams. It is mainly affecting the headline figure qualifications, e.g. equivalent courses only being counted as 1 GCSE for the school figures and schools can only claim 2 vocational qualifications within their figures

The issue regarding current year 9 students is if they have started a vocational course which does have a external examination then these can be counted towards the 2014 headline figures if these courses are 120 GLH in length (120 guided learning hours). The BTEC Certificate is only 90 GLH, so if a student is currently in year 9 and completing a BTEC Certificate of old spec OCR Level 2 ICT then whilst the student will still gain the qualification, it will not count towards the schools league table results.

I would also like to point out that I have had students who have achieved a distinction * at BTEC undertake a AS unit with only 2 revision sessions and gained a C grade with no further learning

Sorry, but I don't understand what is happening with GCSEs. Is there a thread on this somewhere?

DS is in year 9. The only GCSE courses he has started are for his 3 separate sciences. He is not doing any assessments or exams connected with them this year though.

Can anybody explain what is happening?

for the dyslexic students the fact that they can constantly improve on their coursework is the reason why so many achieve in BTEC (they also feel independent/in control as they can do this without the need for a scribe)

for the current year 9 students there is a grace year (as long as they are currently completing the extended certificate or diploma) and this has been confirmed by DfE. (details here

In the future, BTEC will contain an external test (although the draft specifications are yet to be approved).

In terms of having an understanding, whilst a pass would be possible without a basic understanding (as so a GCSE at a C grade which just needs facts) in order to achieve a merit or higher then there is no possibility to achieve the criteria of comparing/analysing/evaluating without having an understanding and this has been the downfall of the qualification as so many have just seen the requirements of a pass (SLT of schools are just to blame for this as are DM readers!) rather than also look at the higher grade needs for the qualification.

In terms of just inflating the league tables, whilst I agree that many establishments have taken this attitude, this was not the intention of the qualification (unlike OCR ICT but to give students a different dimension for their learning and the application of their learning. A BTEC stood me in great stead for my former career as an engineer before I undertook re-training (A levels and a degree) to become a teacher. Whilst in my former career it was very easy to spot those whose qualifications were 'academic' rather than vocational.......

I agree Loshad.

I would also like to stress that the situation for current Year 9s is very different from the past. They are in the cohort who will be doing linear exams, not modules. It means they can't start any modular courses early, unless they are certificated at the end of Year 10.

Current Year 10s have to follow the 40% rule.

I don't think this has sunk in yet in some schools. The gravity of it only came to me when I recently attended an Edexcel training course.

I can't imagine a student being tarnished by doing BTECs as long as they have a reasonable number of academically rigorous GCSEs. They cannot be penalised by their schools playing the league table game. They do need to be aspiring towards 7 or 8 A/A* grades in rigorous subjects in order to have their application looked at by RG universities. It is quite wrong to say that only A-levels count. At the time of application, the only cashed-in qualifications they have are GCSEs, and their performance tells a lot about a student. They particularly need to do well in subjects that they do not continue into the sixth form as their GCSEs are the last record of these subjects.

As for the intrinsic mertis of BTEC, well that is a whole debate in itself.

One of the things that will be important for the OP's son given his non-traditional educational background is to demonstrate transferable skills in his personal statement. If the BTEC sports allows him to demonstrate teamwork, communication, perseverance or anything else, then that is a real bonus and definitely worth pursuing.

cricketballs - could not disagree with you more - btecs are propping up schools in the league tables, also responsible for mlg inflation for all current gcse students.
imo for dyslexic students they aren't even the best option as there can be a lot of writing for the coursework as opposed to a scribe for the exams.
Nor do i think you are correct re current year 9s - my understanding, and my schools, is that their "worth" will be reduced in half eg our current btec course will be one gcse equivalent not 2, and there will be a new terminal exam of 40%.
It's total bollocks to say students must understand to achieve with btec, my btec students often don't, and i have worked in schools where they definately don't, hence the poor viewing of these qualifications by decent unis.
Very bright students will not be penalised by having them but they certainly add nothing to their cvs, and basically are just time fillers/league table inflaters for the schools.
(secondary science teacher with husband who as part of his job deals with uni admissions to a competitive course)

DD did a Btec in business as well as hard GCSE's, so far she has had 2 offers at good unis.

She achieved a Distinction and whilst it wasn't counted as 4 GCSE's by a Russell Group Uni for Medicine it was counted as one A.

dial - yes I am a secondary school teacher; teaching KS3, BTEC, GCSE, AS and A2