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Original poster

Independant and State grammar Seconday education

84 replies

MauAnt · 09/12/2011 08:50

Hi all

My son DD who has a conditional place at Eton in 2013 is going to a feeder prep boarding school in Oxford to complete year 7 and 8. We are by no means rich as we rely on scholarships and bursaries which thankfully he has for about 80% of the fees.

I have five children all who went or are in state primary schools and dd above is the 2nd, my daughter the older one who is 13 is in a state grammar school in Reading and her younger sister is in year 6 aged 10 is sitting exams for the same state grammar school as her sister and for some independent schools in Oxford. As she is academic we are hoping for a bursary/scholarship from the independent sector if she goes to one.

The question I ask myself is whether my other children aged 8 and 4 and the 13 year old in grammar school will feel resentment for not being privately educated as I intend to focus on only the state grammar schools in the future unless there are exceptional circumstances. I had to move my son to an independent school in Year 5 despite scraping 1/3 of the fees as he is very academic, a sportsman and needed that extra challenge. It transformed him from the boy who was bored at school and did not want to go to a very enthusiastic boy and one who eventually passed the initial Eton exam. My year 6 daughter is almost similar, aspires to be a writer has some of her work published in the Young writers books and I worry that in the state sector she will be suppressed. She is getting ready for the ISEB common entrance examinations in January and I am shocked at how little science is taught in state primary schools compared to independent schools which places her at a disadvantage.

I love all my children equally and do not want any of them to feel less favoured, I remind my daughter in Kendrick Reading about that. Just that these two children are different in their own way. Having said that if none of our bursary applications are successful and my daughter passes to Kendrick Reading (I am not taking it for granted) I will gladly jump at it. Also common sense tells me that I need to meet the 20% school fees for my son and not be looking for any additional fee commitments for my daughter. Help this confused lady who is trying to do the right thing but might be getting it all wrong

OP posts:
Original poster
MauAnt · 09/12/2011 13:04

Parents being fair when life is not - That is precisely why the initial thread states that my daughter currently in year 6 is sitting for a grammar school and some Indies in Oxford.

And why my first child who is 13 had the option of an indie with an 80% bursary and the state grammar and choose the state grammar because it is not just any state grammar it is Kendrick

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AMumInScotland · 09/12/2011 12:56

The fairness is about whether things happen because of the child's abilities/interests/personalities or because the parent chooses to prioritise the needs of one child above the needs of others, in a way that restricts what options they can offer to the other children.

If one child gets into a grammar and another doesn't, then hopefully each will be in a school that best suits their academic abilities.

If one child gets into a particular university or course and another doesn't, that's because of how the child does in their application.

If paying the 20% of the Eton fees for your son makes it impossible for you to consider school fees for your daughter, though she might benefit from it just as much, then there is an inherent unfairness in your choice.

What your daughter gets is not going to depend solely on her abilities or needs, but on the relative amount of your resources you are prepared to allocate to her education rather than your son's.

That's where resentment is likely to come from.

Life doesn't give us all the same. But parents are supposed to treat us fairly.

MoreBeta · 09/12/2011 12:54

grovel - thank you for replying. I think that sounds a pretty fair assessment. That said, it is still a very very good school.

Original poster
MauAnt · 09/12/2011 12:42

Don't know about the thread will have to look it up

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Original poster
MauAnt · 09/12/2011 12:40

But this thread was not necessarily about Eton per se, as people questioned sending my dd to an indie when the other is in a grammar. I would question why send one child to a grammar when the other is going to a comprehensive? isn't that prejudice despite one person passing the exams for it? As they will most likely get into better universities than their comprehensive counterpart. What if one goes to the 13 Russel group of universities and the others don't make it in there then want? Resentment builds amongst siblings? So it takes us back to square one - WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE. In order to be fair across the border of siblings????

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sue52 · 09/12/2011 12:36

Wasn't there a similar thread to this a few months ago. OP, are you chilli1234 in disguise?

grovel · 09/12/2011 12:34

MoreBeta, I can only really speak about the 10 boys who entered my DS's house at the same time as him. Two were the children of seriously wealthy "old money" parents. Two were on significant scholarships/bursaries and (I would guess) had relatively modest home lifestyles. The other six came from (sorry - huge generalisations) pretty standard "professional" families (doctors, solicitors, accountants, surveyor etc). Five of these six boys had both parents working. So, I was not overly concerned about the "lifestyle" issue.

Where I do agree with you is that Eton can be rather "sink or swim" and so not suited to every boy of 13.

I also agree that Eton is not nearly as mystical as some outsiders think. It's a very good school with nice buildings and a distinctive uniform. My DS had a great time there but when push comes to shove it's made up of 1300 adolescent boys of all types who are getting on with doing what adolescent boys do.

I have got nephews, nieces, godchildren who have been/are at every kind of school. I don't think any of them somehow "missed out" by not going to Eton. They all seem to be meeting their academic potential. They all seem to be happy. The motivated ones will succeed wherever they went to school.

Original poster
MauAnt · 09/12/2011 12:33

What are his English grades like in school or rather what are all his grades like in school. A child who starts off well academically, has a good grounding, lots of parental input as you cannot rely on state education in the Uk. If that child is sensible, I do not see why their grades should slip. Mine never did as I strived to be always on top of the game even whilst at university

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mummytime · 09/12/2011 12:28

I have a friend who was the oldest of 5, they all went to private schools, but her younger sisters went to Roedean and hers wasn't as good. She still loves them etc. but yes it still niggles 30-40 years later.

I also know a boy who was a choral scholar and then went to Eton on a Scholarship, his younger sister went to the local Comp. I think they can both resent each other (she got to stay at home whereas he boarded from 7, but he had the best education and amazing opportunities).
BTW my son was also published at 8 in a similar publication, he is strugglign to pass GCSE English, it really doesn't prove anything.

sue52 · 09/12/2011 12:27

You seem to have made up your mind. I'm not sure why you are bothering to ask as you seem so defensive.

Original poster
MauAnt · 09/12/2011 12:20

I don't agree with having to be from similar backgrounds. I think a child who thrives or learns how to thrive/mix with others from various healthy backgrounds (obviously not gangsters or druggies) is on the right footage in life where you meet work with, form friendships with or marry people from completely different backgrounds than you

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MoreBeta · 09/12/2011 11:52

Our two DSs could be at Eton if we chose to send them. We looked at sending them to a well known Eton feeder school and it really was tempting. DW was/is still keen on the idea. We have several friends who have children at Eton or will be going to Eton. For them, it is pretty much a matter of it being a family tradition rather than an educational choice.

However, I really felt that actually it would not have suited DS1. Although he is very academic and quite sporty. He is quiet shy and not very good at pushing himself forward. I have heard that at Eton you have to be able to 'network' in order to make the most of it. Also, I do worry a bit that some of the children at Eton come from a lifestyle which is far beyond our means (comfortable but far from being oligarchs) and I do wonder if that really is something I want to have either of our children exposed to and have to come to terms with at school.

Would you say that was true grovel or is that off the mark?

In the end, you have to make a chloice about what is best for your children. I went to private baording school and my sisters the local comprehensive. I am unsure if it means they resent me but we lost a vital common experience and connection during childhood and we dont have much in common with each other.

We send our DSs to a very good private day school and I feel it gives them all the opportunities they need to maximise whatever talent they have and attain the very top of business, academic, political or sporting life if they have the drive but not bothered if they don't. Its up to them. They will have a happy school life with peers that are form similar backgrounds.

Original poster
MauAnt · 09/12/2011 11:42

Nancerema. Good point. But the point is that what works for one person may not for the other. He may very well hate Eton on the other hand he may like it. He may hate me if I move him back to a state school which I moved him out of after year 4 because he was simply bored silly. We do not know if some of the decisions we make in life are right or wrong but cannot always tiptoe and not attempt to go for it. I think only God knows.

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nancerama · 09/12/2011 11:37

I can't speak for the sibling aspect, as I'm an only, but I can speak for my experience in independent education.

I went to a selective independent secondary school and hated every minute of it. It was high pressured and incredibly competitive. We were taught to pass exams, and nothing much else.

Despite my unhappiness, it took 3 years to persuade my parents to let me leave and go to a state comprehensive, where I thrived.

I do feel that my mother didn't necessarily have my best interests at heart when selecting my first secondary school - she got so carried away with the fact that I'd won a place somewhere so competitive that she didn't stop to think if that place was right for me.

OP - whatever choices you make for your kids, make sure you make the right choices for them. Etonian may suit your DS very well, or he may actually grow to resent his siblings and their "normal" lives.

Original poster
MauAnt · 09/12/2011 11:36

Yes I chose to have 5 children and guess what and to show how life can be my children despite the numbers and the work involved are flourishing over and above 2 children families not only in academics but morals. So I think the reference to the number of children in this thread is a bit inappropriate.

You might as well make sure all your children go to the same university as God forbid if one goes to Oxbridge and the rest do not then favouritism sets in? Where do you draw the line?

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Theas18 · 09/12/2011 11:28

Agre you have clearly made up your mind and your other children will not be allowed to will of course be lovely enough not to resent it in the slightest. Your choice.

I just feel dreadfully sorry for your son in some ways- putting all your eggs into one basket is an poor parenting strategy and put a huge pressure on the child.

(friend has done this and her DD "was " going to Oxford to study mathematics- pathway set by friend since child was quite small and had an aptitude. Totally understand in this case, as her DS has quite severe special needs, and will make a lovely adult but not an academic. Well, she's found it very difficult (and I suspect her DD has too) as Oxford said no thanks after interview).

You chose to have 5 children.....

Original poster
MauAnt · 09/12/2011 11:22

Thank you Chandon. I am doing the best for all my children

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grovel · 09/12/2011 11:20

MoreBeta, good post (and my DS left Eton two years ago).

Chandon · 09/12/2011 11:13

They may feel resentful, they may not. They may feel resentful about other things, or they may not. Nobody knows!

As long as YOU have the courage of your convictions, and are sure you are doing the best for all your children (sounds like you are), you will be able to deal with any resentment if and when it occurs.

So follow your motherly instincts.

AMumInScotland · 09/12/2011 11:10

You haven't actually started this thread to get advice then have you? You are quite sure that your children won't resent the decisions you are making, and that if they do then it is their fault for their attitudes and not your fault for your choices.

So why bother posting?

If what you wanted to say was "My son has got a place at Eton" and "Anyone who feels any resentment about this has a problem with their personality" then you could have just said that upfront and not even hinted that you thought there could be the faintest issue with your plan.

MoreBeta · 09/12/2011 11:03

MauAnt - I know the Oxford private and state school system very well indeed and know exactly which schools in Oxford you are talking about. I also know roughly which schools you are talking about in Reading.

In truth, you are making choice between very good school that in the long run will have no impact on your childrens academic outcome but might have a big impact on how they feel about each other.

Yes Eton is a wonderful school but having known a fair few Etonians and one in particular who quite candidly told me that despite all its many virtues, the vast majority of boys that come out of there just go one to do pretty normal jobs.

If I had the choice, in your position and my children were able to pass the entry exams and get scholarships and if I could afford it I would save the money on Eton boarding and instead use it to send the children to a mix of Magdalen in Oxford and probably Headington Girls in Oxford (Oxford High School is very academic too and a bit cheaper I think). Magdalen is taking girls in the 6th form now and suspect it may well go mixed in the end. I really think you could not do any better and life will be a lot less stressful than having children spread across so many different schools.

Hullygully · 09/12/2011 10:59

Not quite. In the UK being educated privately confers ENORMOUS advantages over state, even selective grammars.

Original poster
MauAnt · 09/12/2011 10:57

Yes God Knows. We live in a world where we envy and resent people for material things, never satisfied with who we are or what we do - the grass is always greener on the other side. If any of your DD's resent each other for not being educated independently when the other sibling was then it is their personality that is the problem rather than their parents decision

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Hullygully · 09/12/2011 10:55

god knows.

Original poster
MauAnt · 09/12/2011 10:52

Is it Eton that is the problem here. If that is the case then all ladies in the UK should resent the men because there is no equivalent girls school to Eton. They might as well resent being born girls? rather than boys.

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