Saint albans boys v haberdashers boys

Moving away from the public school debate and back to the actual topic :) we chose Habs despite being local to St A.

At the open day St A came over as a bit too serious for my son's liking. When we went to the Habs open day my son immediately fell in love with the extensive grounds and impressive buildings. Then there were the presentations by the various clubs like water polo.
I don't have any real experience of St A or Harrow so U won't even try to compare the schools. All I can is that we are happy with Habs.

Happygardening - I have inside knowledge of scholars at my sons' school and I can assure you they aren't viewed as the power house or setting any path for the rest. Their status is unknown. I think the school value all their pupils and will help them all find their thing, regardess of their fee status. It's really quite ridiculous for system to do otherwise.

The Eton College/Harrow/Winchester College arrangement is entirely dependent upon the aquiesence of parents: you sign your sons up to genuflect to the nonsense, without actually knowing how they feel.

SA achieve better A level results (ave A level points per pupil) than Harrow and Winchester and they are only v narrowly beaten by Eton (nb I know Winchester don't do A levels and have instead opted for Pre U but their results have been very closely studied by the Sutton Trust and translated into A level points here

SA also beat Harrow at Hockey, Rugby, Cricket and cross country. They also priduce brilliant musicians, physicists, artists, actors, mathematicians, rock stars, sportsmen, etc. They also offer Latin and Ancient Greek. AND they offer polyester blazers.

MrsJ I think you either deliberately or accidentally missed my point my DS shares lessons and all activities with the scholars ok not the boarding aspect but I doubt you son at St Albans has more time with the scholars in his school unless he takes them home with him at night. The scholars are viewed as the power house, bench mark of accademic excellence setting a path for the rest of the boys to follow and aspire too. In another life I was very serious about riding there is nothing more exciting and challenging than watching and riding along side the best riders in the world I felt no resentment when they won and its the same for my DS he says there's no resentment between them.
The name commoners may sound old fashioned and patronizing to those not at the school but my DS certainly does not feel patronised it's just a term not a classification.

The old head had a prejudicial view of the place. I don't care if he doesn't think we're Eton parents. I'm not going to the school after all!

I'm not in favour of College or the robes the boys have to wear but if DS gets one then it is such an honour and achievement that he says he will take up the offer. But, the odds are slim so I probably won't need to worry about him wearing a robe!

MrsJAlfredPrufrock, it may be something to do with the original statutes of the school that scholars are in their own house (the original school buildings at both Eton and Winchester).

Happygardening : how odd that the scholars are kept so separate. I don't know why they don't scatter them among the other houses and do away with the commoner and college distinction. Elitism within the already elite (intellectually) is to my mind peculiar and discouraging to those who may be brighter on another day/haven't been coached so extensively for the entrance papers etc etc. It's a little like having an Oxford college for students who have 17 or more GcSEs at A* including Latin and Greek.

Colleger : What on earth did the prep school head mean when he said you weren't Eton parents?

The E and W scholarships are ridiculous and more like A'level standard. I'm not holding out any hope but if he did I'd be going on holiday!

When my DH was at Prep school they got a half day holiday when a boy won a scholarship. They got a full day holiday if a boy won a Winchester scholarship. Winchester then was the academic school - with its entrance papers considerably harder than Common Entrance.

So the scholars at Win Coll live in a different house but there are scholars in all my DS's classes. If you knew anything about Win Coll you would know that the school is very house centric he does not have much contact wth scholars outside of lesson/games/clubs/activities which take up most of the day. But he also only has limited contact with the commoners in the other nine houses outside of those times.
If I look at Eton I'm not middle class. Anyone can look at Eton you just ring up and make an appointment they dont ask you what class you are. In this free country we live in you can look at anything it doesn't indicate support or dislike. It was an intersting expereince we had always beieved that Win Coll was right for my DS and looking at Eton only confirmed this.

And what is this "class-riddled nonsense from a bygone era" that you think is being perpetuated by these schools?

"I do the decent thing in being embarrassed about my decision to buy education for my children"
Im sure that will lots of comfort to those children in sink comps in Peckham!

I'm not sure 93% of the population would view St Albans as a well-rounded education. Your arguments fall flat and your comments about these establishments are very ignorant. For one that mocks those who post with grammatical errors, you seem intellectually stilted if your views are based on a few newspaper articles or outdated perception. Thankfully my boys grow up in an environment where they seek first-hand evidence before making a judgement.

Colleger - Only someone arriviste could put it in such vulgar terms. The choice of school reflects my tension between buying privilege (which I don't care to do) and buying into a rounded education (which I do care about, very much). I'm very clear I don't want to be involved in a school that perpetuates class-riddled nonsense from a bygone era. I agree it's an imperfect moral high ground. I hope you aren't going to cheapen the argument now with evidence of Eton's generous bursaries (perhaps your son is a privileged recipient) because aren't they in a position to do that as a result of a history of revolting and unquestioned privilege?

MrsJ, think she has the moral high-ground because she pays less for her child's education, or at least she assumes she does!

MrsJAlfredPrufrock - reading your comment above about what you think of private education - if those are your views, why on earth do you choose to send your children to a private school?

I do the decent thing in being embarrassed about my decision to buy education for my children. And I try to make my purchase in a way that's quietly respectful and mindful of the fact that it's elitist, archaic and morally questionable.

Personally I find it distasteful when a parent sending a child to an independent school mocks another independent school. You may feel sending DS to St Albans is not privileged, elitist or posh but the vast majority of the country would find it snooty and unnecessary. One persons "norm" is another's "dream"!

Or is it a case of fox and the grapes?

Most Collegers get 5% off their school fees at Win and that is changing to zero after this year so there is no distinction. Eton is a measly 10% so again it is not the poor boys versus the rich boys. Thankfully it is an honour to be a scholar at these schools and the other boys are respectful of their peers abilities, just as a College boy would be respectful of sporting prowess or musical talent. Boys don't care about who wears what - they are more interested in how to wind up the Don or sneak off to the local girls school!

Oh and I looked round Eton when OH was on the minimum wage. :)

Happygardening - the very fact that you looked round Eton as a possibility for your son, precludes you from being 'a normal middle class family'. Next you'll be telling me you are the squeezed middle. How on earth do you reconcile the way Winchester distinguishes its scholars (in college) from its full fee payers (in commoner houses)? It labels boys on joining and seems to have not accepted the notion of egalitarianism. As a metaphor for an ability to accept that things change, Winchester's "college/commoner" distinction on joining is a worrying one. At St Albans scholars are not revealed to anyone.

We are not a showy or privileged family just a completely eccentric normal middle class family. We earn a good wage in comparison with Mr and Mrs average but it all goes on school fees so we are probably less showy than those who on paper earn less than us.
I genuinely dont believe Win Coll is about showy privilege and as you said St Pauls definitely isn't which is why we loved it. i do agree that others are but does it make any difference to a child's future out comes? We looked at Eton I felt that it was ridiculous. No one in the 21st century wanders around in tail coats eating a take away pizza (I saw the promotional video) but I am unconvinced that it harms society in general. I feel the same about Harrow who wears boaters for God sake? But this is all about personal choice. My friend sent her DC's to Christ Hospital which did does take lots of children from less privileged back grounds but in my opinion it was positively groaning under the weight of meaningless ritual and a completely ridiculous uniform. I struggle to accept this but I know that some people like all this stuff. In my ideal world I would keep uniform very simple and dump showy privilege. Ultimately we cant have everything no school is perfect we just have to hope that wherever we send our DC's the positive aspects out significantly weigh the negatives and most important of all that they are happy.

Nothing to do with being coed btw. You must surely see that there is a case to be answered wrt showy privilege?

Its alright you don't have to be embarrassed I've just made a dig at you on the other thread so we're equal!! My son is a commoner at Win Coll. He also got a place at St Pauls (which we all loved its a schools firmly in the 21st century) but he would have had to have boarded and there are now hardly any boarders left and none in his year; there were about 180 when my DH was there. I don't know how much you know about Win Coll but we choose it because it is actually less showy than that well know school off the M4. There are no tail coats or boaters here the head is trying very hard to down play a lot of that stuff and I believe turn it into an academic/intellectual centre of excellence. It is offering generous bursaries and trying to open its doors up to children from state schools etc. We are not looking for an old school tie leg up or want my DS to emerge as a "typical public school boy" or even particularly interested in results we wanted real intellectual stimulation and loved the house system. We looked at loads of schools for my other DS so feel I am quite an expert and IMHO only Win Coll offers this; there recent move to only the Pre U I believe has help facilitate this. There will now be hundreds of posts disagreeing with what I've written but this is my view and my DS2 has never been happier since he started there.

happygardening I ve just seen on that other thread that your son goes to Winchester. And your husband went to St Paul's (as did my bil) which would definitely go on my less showy list. Why Winchester? Is you son in college or a commoner house?

MrsJAlfredPrufrock I'm not sure what your trying to say by the following:
"Harrow, Eton, Oundle and Winchester (among others) are ridiculous" surely you don't think not being coed makes you ridiculous thats just personal preference and
"The big name public schools seem to refuse to accept that the party's over."
Perhaps you could expand on these comments.