GCSE options help.

God help students if teachers are telling them the Ebacc doesn't matter and that it's only of concern to the government, despite the published material from universities that having a language does matter - and some 6th forms saying they won't take applicants without it. Let's hope their parents are better informed and can see why teachers have an axe to grind about it.

"I failed the ebac" where can I get one as I also failed the Ebacc (couldn't wait to drop french as I hated it and would not work in the subject) somehow I got good A levels and a good degree.....

The reason that so many school were 'caught on the hop' when the Ebacc was suddenly introduced as a measuring figure is that schools were concentrating on the Every Child Matters agenda (which we were told we had to) and that most teachers agree with and MFL at KS4 is an optional subject, therefore if a student didn't want to study it then so be it, schools allowed students to study subjects they enjoyed

All any university, employer, VI form are really concerned with is 5 A*-C GCSEs including English and Maths and science - for a lot of things they don't care about the science.

IMHO she has got all the subjects she needs for just about any career so the 'left over' should be things she enjoys, they are just making up the numbers.

The only organisation bothered about the sbac is the government, colleges don't care and at teacher's conferences you will see badges saying "I failed the ebac"

The Ebacc is just a way of seeing that a student is well-rounded. I noticed that for entrance to a high-ranking grammar school sixth form, prospective students must have a spread of top GCSE passes - it was clearly stated that maths/further maths/maths with knobs on only would not suffice.

I can't see what's wrong with it, myself. If you are hoping to go on to university then surely you are holding yourself up to be academic, in which case you should not baulk at the Ebacc. If you are more vocationally inclined then that is fine - no-one is insisting that you take the qualifying subjects.

But I think it is fair to say that if you can't manage the Ebacc (with a few provisos - perhaps RE should be included) then you are not made of the stuff which top universities want.

"In terms of the Ebacc - there is no such qualification! It is just a yard stick that was suddenly put on the league tables to measure schools performances with. It is classed by the vast majority as unfair to schools to suddenly 'grade them on this' as MFL has not been on the NC at KS4 for a number of years and therefore has been an option subject."

I don't see it as unfair. As Charbon said, it "is very similar to the former School Certificate, or Matriculation. It is neither avante-garde nor novel to offer a broadly academic diet to students with the aptitude and ability to study those subjects".
Schools are complaining because they were caught out - they were busy skewing GCSE choices to get league table positions instead of offering their students a rounded education.

DS has already started his triple science, and will have double English and Maths

He has 4 choices, they suggest they consider the EB and advise a language.

So he wants to do

Music
1 language
and 2 from Geography/History/Geology

This will cover the EB but is what he wants to do anyway.

Ok well atm dd is thinking:

Triple science
Double English
Maths
A language - to be decided between the two she does
History
Art
Textiles

and something else - could be another language but we're a bit worried about the workload, could be business studies, could be imedia (which I know won't be any use uni wise but I reckon the other subjects will take care of that and the course sounds both fun and useful)

She is very bright and puts herself under a lot of pressure. I want her to do well but I also want her to develop a wide range and not be stressed to the max. It's a shame her school don't offer Economics at GCSE as I did that and really enjoyed it.

just wondering all those posters who are 'down grading' business studies if you have any idea of the course content? It is a demanding subject which, coincidently is the most popular course at degree level.

Even if you don't study business into that high a standard, it give a sound basis for what ever career you enter into as it is all about the world as we live in now, why decisions are made by businesses and the effects that they have on every day life

In terms of the Ebacc - there is no such qualification! It is just a yard stick that was suddenly put on the league tables to measure schools performances with. It is classed by the vast majority as unfair to schools to suddenly 'grade them on this' as MFL has not been on the NC at KS4 for a number of years and therefore has been an option subject. Not really the way to go for ECM.....

You may also wish to consider the 'value' of the subjects.
History and Geography are considered to be substantially better than courses
such as Business studies, Media Studies, Performing Arts etc, and many of the top universities do not consider them at all when 'counting back' to GCSEs
when it comes to awarding places, and some universities insist on a language GCSE.

Hugos, the Ebacc covers only 5 subjects, so it is possible for a student to take Arts subjects as part of their free choices. Although I agree with you that the Arts should be included in the Ebacc, its introduction hasn't stopped a student taking Arts subjects at all. It's caused a resources and timetabling headache for some schools to ensure that students on the Ebacc programme will still be able to select music, drama etc., but it's achievable.

Currently the other Humanities subjects don't count towards the Ebacc, although there is pressure to include these later down the line. At the moment it is confined to History or Geography.

Offering double Maths. to the top sets is fairly standard practice. Some schools allow those students to do the traditional Maths GCSE in Y10 and Advanced Maths in Y11.

OP, I'd strongly advise your DD to pick either History or Geography. Both might be too much alongside her very academic diet, but as long as she keeps Spanish and takes one Humanity subject, I think she will be fine. It might also be worth finding out whether she will have to do Core Science as well as Triple Science and therefore a lot of science lessons in a week! Not from the perspective of dropping Triple Science as an option I must stress, but more from the perspective of trying to balance her timetable with more arts/creative options so that she doesn't get too bogged down with academia - and gets a more rounded education.

Whether your school is providing for the EB or not, luckily it is a National standard and if your DD gets A*- C in the Ebacc subjects, she will have achieved the Ebacc standard by default.

As you will have seen from this thread, some schools are working hard on their capacity to provide EB subject options to students who will benefit and can manage that academic diet, some schools have decided not to do so, or lack the capacity to offer more students the option of taking Ebacc subjects. There is understandable resistance from teachers who teach non-Ebacc subjects, because it makes their positions vulnerable if there is a low take-up rate for their subjects.

However, whatever your political beliefs, the Ebacc is very similar to the former School Certificate, or Matriculation. It is neither avante-garde nor novel to offer a broadly academic diet to students with the aptitude and ability to study those subjects. Regardless of any propaganda you might hear about Universities and Employers valuing BTECs and GCSEs in Media studies and Performing Arts as being of equal merit to qualifications in academic subjects, in an Employer's market and against a backdrop of shrinking F/E funding, it is simply not true. In some jobs and at some universities, high-grade GCSEs in academic subjects will always be more valuable. The Russell Group has in fact produced a guide where it is clear that those universities do take into account GCSE subjects/results alongside other factors in determining to whom they will offer places. UCL for example, insist on a Language GCSE for any course.

Charbon - I don't know what area you're in, but the main problem with EBacc is that it doesn't include any Arts subjects!

So how can 6th forms say that students must have the EBacc if say the student wants to do say A-Level Music or Art? The EBacc is narrowly prescriptive and a political fad, and I'd personally be wary of 6th forms which have leapt on board and demand it - they are devaluing Music and Art, and also Drama and others. Universities value breadth of study and would never penalise say a med candidate who had straight A*s at GCSE including Music! EBacc would prevent this.

whoops .....humanities

Hi MorningPurples. The only humantities that count for the Ebac are history and geography! - extremely limited.
My elder daughter is taking art and loves it - but it is lots of work and she stays after school 1 day a week as well to keep on top of it......but a lot of the work she can sit in front of the TV and do, so she finds it relaxing.
Currently trying to pursuade yr 9 DD not to take it as an option as she is really lazy and won't enjoy all the work!
Our school does Maths GCSE in yr 10 followed by either statistics or additional maths (if planning to do maths at A level) in year 11.

Do other humanities (e.g., RE, or ClassCiv) count for the EBacc? Just wondering as I know some pupils don't really want to do either history or geography (which sounds more like a science option anyway).

What is the double maths course that is being offered? I know a lot of schools round here only offer a single maths option.

I know some dyslexic pupils who really struggle with foreign languages are now feeling pressured to take them, so that they can get the EBacc, whereas before they might have been allowed to replace them with other options, or have extra English teaching during that time.

Art seems to be the most time-consuming GCSE I've come across, even for pupils who really like it. They seem to do nothing else on their weekends and evenings and holidays but art. And they'd chosen it as they thought it might be a softer option to give them a break from the academics. In content it might be, but in terms of time, it's been a huge amount of work, and several have regretted choosing it.

Titchy it is even more prescriptive than that. I am talking about sixth form schools, not colleges. The college would take anyone with a pulse, but the competition for sixth form places at the schools (since so many local secondaries only offer 11-16 provision) is fierce. In addition to preference given to students with the Ebacc standard, to study A levels at two of those schools, a student must have achieved at least a B at GCSE in those subjects, with preference given to As and A*s. These schools are offering a bit of latitude to students applying for places in September 2012, because they took their GCSEs before the Ebacc was introduced and it wasn't their or their school's 'fault' that they took non-Ebacc options. From September 2013 however, the Ebacc will be one of the sixth-form entry criteria for those schools and this is clear in their prospectuses.

It was one of the main reasons why our school 'opted in' to the Ebacc, despite the understandable fury at yet another knee-jerk government initiative that gave schools very little planning time. To do otherwise would have seriously damaged our students' prospects - and that's not fair or just.

Tonics= topics of course

If she likes science as well as being good at it, she'll find a lot of that geography syllabus quite fun. I loved glaciation and the other physical geography. Hated history, but got a stupidly good grade despite revising it all at the last minute.
Seriously, I'd look at how much work history and business studies are likely to cause. I've no experience of the latter, but my Y9 daughter refuses to do history a) because they study concentration camps and assorted other really depressing tonics and b) she does more history HW than anything else.

From my point of view I have encouraged my DDs to take options based on:

1. what they like
2. what they are good at
3. what may help them in their career whilst keeping their options open. I have a DD currently doing GCSEs already - her options are: triple science; music; art; and Spanish. Didn't take Geog/History as that would have meant dropping music or art both of which she is talented in and may lead onto a career. No interest at all in Geography or History so ultimately wouldn't have helped with a career. May wish to continue with sciences at A level (I hope so!) hence taking triple science. Predicted to get As and A*s in all subjects - if she works hard. IMO this is more important than getting a C in history - a subject she has always hated! Luckily the school advises about the Ebacc but doesn't pressurise anyone to take those options, although a language is strongly advised.

Charbon I find it very difficult tp belive that a 6th form college (I assume you're talking about a state 6th form?) would not offer a place to an applicant with 12 A*s simply becuase they didn't have a humanity GCSE.

Can you clarify whether she's got the option to ditch language and both History and Geography? That's what I'm trying to establish, to help you with advice. Schools that are tailoring provision to cope with the Ebacc are not allowing the 'top pathway' to ditch a language or a Humanities subject.

If you don't know, I'd advise you to ring the designated person on the school's senior leadership team (usually an Assistant Head or Deputy Head) and ask that person about the Ebacc and whether the school is providing for it.

I think the OP needs to clarify how many options her DD has, as there seems to be confusion on the thread. I read it that in addition to Maths, English and Triple Science, she will have 5 other options and is considering Spanish, History, Geography, ICT and Business Studies. As long as she opts for one MFL and one Humanities subject from that list, I agree that it's unnecessary to do Geography AND History - and the workload for both is enormous. However IMO it would be irresponsible to dissuade a student from taking EBAC subjects, because of a political stance.

As far as the EBacc is concerned English, Maths, 2 science, 1 humanity and 1 language is all that is required and that appears to be covered.

THe EBacc isn't important to HE at the minute because it's new. It will become so especially within the russell group HEI's where they have a hard enough job differentiating applicants.

OP your options look like they cover the breadth for both the EBacc and any future HE choices assuming thats where she heads, Triple science makes geography a little redundant if you wanted to drop one, although personally i would recommend keeping it. ICT and Business studies are the two "softer" subjects ( in as much as they tend to be taught differently and have more of a focus on formative assessment)

Speaking as a teacher, her choice looks very manageable for most bright students.

Laziness is fairly normal in year 9 especially for bright students. They always step their game up when they need to.

Hope that hjelps