Foul bevaviour at previously fantastic cofe school - teachers' advice welcome

being poor isn't an excuse for bad behaviour.

I don't think, that when people are talking about dreadful family backgrounds, that they're talking about being poor.

What if the child has been kicked out of home? Parent an abusive alcoholic? Parent sexually abusing them?

And it's not an excuse, but it might be an explanation.

I went in over disruption, and because it was affecting my daughter emotionally. I found the response and the platitudes unacceptable together with the overall lack of standards and expectations beyond the ever so shiny prospectus. Our dd made friends with some lovely girls who lived in extenuating circumstances - they didn't misbehave - why should others - being poor isn't an excuse for bad behaviour. IMO the pupils who will not behave need boundaries early not in their late teens after a caution or three. It seemed to me there was more reward for negative and immature behaviour than for good behaviour.

The staff were doing their best but with little help from the Head as far as I could see. The system stank and this thread illustrates why.

So, pastoral, you're saying that you do give the nice kids only the bare minimum?

I'm not sure you can extrapolate that to every teacher.

I don't use hardworking pupils as unpaid TAs. Do you?

Like most parents your concern is for your child and your child alone. Ideally you would like her to mix with young ladies like her self, with an interest in learning.

Life is not like that, we have to deal with people all the time that may not share our morals.

This will teach her a lesson in life, there are people from all walks of life and she should hold on to her own values and know she is loved and lucky.

You can not just get rid of people you don't like because they don't conform, life is not like that.

"Surely if the children are from dreadful backgrounds then they need to be referred to agencies or schools which have the specialist units to help them"

Bizarrely, these children are allowed- nay, encouraged- to go to mainstream school. Unbelievable, eh?

OP, the school are under no obligation to share with you other children's circumstances or any sanctions or support they receive.

Careful OP! Some teachers will think that your DD is presious because she has a parent who cares.

Giving a bare minimum is no good for anyone, going the extra mile is far better for all, don't you think?
Wasting time on kids who crave negative attention, don't want to learn and are rude has no benefit...
We all know that good. hard working pupils are being used in every classroom as TAs almost! Not only they are getting the bare minimum but they are 'working' without pay! All the tricks in the book are used to get everyone to that magic C. :(

"Surely if the children are from dreadful backgrounds then they need to be referred to agencies or schools which have the specialist units to help them and which are not available at a small school"

Chuck 'em in a cell and lock away the key already?

"Surely if the children are from dreadful backgrounds then they need to be referred to agencies or schools which have the specialist units to help them and which are not available at a small school"

translation

Get the proles away from my child - NOW!

pastoral, suggesting that nice kids only get the 'bare minimum' is quite an insult to hardworking teachers who put on extra-curricular activities, revision sessions, school trips etc etc etc. As a teacher, are you saying you only give nice kids the bare minimum? I certainly don't.

"It is not free if they are paying taxes!"
Take the actual contribution that their taxes makes to their child's education and see exactly how much of a teacher's time they could actually afford.

If the troubled kids were only given the 'bare minimum' that you want them to have, then what hope for them? Screwed by their family life, ignored by the state. Will they become nice productive members of the adult population do you think?

My first school (I'm also a teacher) was a lovely, all-girls C of E school with an excellent reputation.

We had more teenage pregnancies and bullying there than anywhere else I've worked. I also dealt with more sexual abuse issues there (this may be pure chance, or because I was a young, sweet teacher and no child will tell me anything now I'm a wizened old hag) than in the rest of my schools put together.

OP, I'm afraid that this sounds like a mixture of hearsay, exaggerated gossip from Year 8 girls and ordinary school life. However, there are two issues here:

1. The school is rubbish. Their intake has changed and they have no idea how to deal with it.
2. (and more likely) You don't know what's going on behind the scenes. There is certainly no way that if the 12 year old was in the papers etc. that there isn't a very high level of social services involvement. Trust me, she will have already had and be having loads more of external agency involvement (FYI, with my CP background, I would certainly be picking her up as a likely victim of abuse. Somebody else will certainly have done the same). Similarly, no child would get away with a PROVEN theft without an exclusion....unless there is more to the issue than you know about.

OP, I would be very certain of your facts and have evidence about lessons being disrupted that specifically impacts on your child before you head into school to complain (otherwise we'd definitely mark you down as a nosy old biddy, to be frank!)

' I think some of you teachers should try to walk a mile or two in a caring parent's shoes'
I couldn't agree more.

' How is it fair that some kids are born to nice parents and get huge advantages from having parents interested in their education and some kids get born to arseholes who don't care about them?' THE NICE KIDS SHOULD BE PENALISED THEN?

It is a shame that the nice parents who pay taxes are told that their children are having a free education and they should be happy with the bare min or get out. It is not free if they are paying taxes! However, it is almost always free for the others...
ENVY?
I am a teacher as well

Theft and assault - a UK victim can press charges. All secondary children are over the age of criminal responsibility.

Abusive behaviour etc - school should have disciplinary process that takes time to complete, at end point child is out.

If kid choses to short-circuit the disciplinary process by perpetrating criminal acts, parents have the choice to act or shut up. Have they opted to turn the other cheek?

What Pictish said. I'm also a teacher. Nothing odd or unusual in anything listed by the OP

Many Teachers are giving up really, they can?t stand it but they don?t dare to say a word about it in any staff room!

lol at the idea of poor downtrodden teachers huddling in a corner of the staff room but unable to voice their opinion incase the mean senior leadership team do them over!!!

None of these issues are any of your business OP.
If your own child is being disrupted then feel free to discuss that issue with the staff. Otherwise mind your own.

"a lot of attention is given to bad behaviour and no effort is made towards the well behaved and hard working pupils. How is that fair?"

How is it fair that some kids are born to nice parents and get huge advantages from having parents interested in their education and some kids get born to arseholes who don't care about them?

This is state education, free to all. And due to inclusion we have to cater for all. If you want an education that only further boosts the life chances of those already privileged by their birth, go private.

As for 'no effort made towards the well-behaved', do they not get a free education and qualifications then? Is that worth nothing to you?

So am I Eeyore...we can share the shoes

Eyore, I think you're the one who will come up with the most sensible and balanced view of all :)

I'm a teacher and a parent. Whose shoes should I walk in?

I don't think that's true - we spend lots of time making sure nice kids with good homelives get all the help and support they need. The point is that often that help and support that different kids need is very very different and, as previous posters have said, confidentiality means that parents only see little individual parts without everything that's going on in the background.

Also, remember that lots of pupils who have support at home almost take it for granted, so don't necessarily go home and talk about all the stuff that school gave done to support them; not because they don't notice or aren't grateful but because every day they have adults who help them reach their potential so it isn't worthy if comment, if that makes sense? For them, swearing etc is so out of character that's what they refer to. It's not the same for everyone, that's all I'm saying. If the school I'd outstanding and the OP has been happy up until now then
I'd talk to them about any issues concerning get DD but tryst they know what they're doing with the other pupils.

Children who have nice parents should not be penalised because they have nice parents either.
I have friends who teach in the state sector and are frustrated with this mentality. A lot of time is spent on children with issues ( I think some parents should try and walk a mile in the shoes of some of my pupils...), a lot of attention is given to bad behaviour and no effort is made towards the well behaved and hard working pupils. How is that fair?
Many Teachers are giving up really, they can?t stand it but they don?t dare to say a word about it in any staff room!

If it was a good school, it probably is still a good school, but with some troubled souls in the cohort. I suspect most schools are the same.