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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

ds1 is sulking because I won't help him with his German homework

31 replies

roisin · 12/11/2011 12:56

He said he doesn't need a dictionary, then proceeds to ask me the German for half a dozen English words. I decline (after the first one).

I'm happy to help by suggesting some idioms, etc; or improving on some phrasing. But basic vocab/dictionary work is up to him, I think.

OP posts:

Original poster

roisin · 17/11/2011 07:43

Excellent news. I'm delighted it's going well for you and that you have supportive staff.

ds1 did find it difficult in yr8 and yr9 because MFL was the only subject that wasn't set and he wasn't used to being in mixed ability group. But academically it worked for him (through the hard work of the teachers no doubt).

I guess they make the decision that they get better engagement from the students by allowing them to choose which languages they do. But if you do choice, that determines your classes, rather than academic setting. You can't do both!

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Clary · 16/11/2011 23:26

Cool that they are all doing 2 languages (only do one at my school ).

Not so cool not to set tho, I am teaching unset yr 7s (we set from yr 8) and it's hard to get the differentiation right!

It's going OK here, school is excellent and staff super-supportive, my ironing pile is a nightmare tho

Original poster

roisin · 16/11/2011 01:59

Hello, Clary! How are you? How's it going?!

Well, they don't set for languages, so that might be one reason Clary.
Also they are all doing two languages.
At the school where I work the levels are much lower, but that's a different story.

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Clary · 16/11/2011 01:08

roisin I'm a bit shocked actually that a yr 8 class wouldn't do the futur proche ie je vais + inf as tinuviel suggests.

Anyway a high achieving class, tho if it's only 3 lesson a fortnight maybe that's why...

Our not so high-achieving yr 9s have certainly already done it.

Agree no need for j'irai, je vais aller is totally fine.

Original poster

roisin · 15/11/2011 07:19

Oh right! That makes sense. Thank you so much.
No reason why he can't do that. I'll have a chat with her.

(As far as reporting home/to students school just used to set end of yr9 targets, then no grades were reported just "on target" or above or below. [though of course they did get levels for individual assessments.] I think that's a far better system, as it stops them obsessing about particular individual levels or sublevels!)

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Tinuviel · 14/11/2011 22:46

To gain the level (6 for all 3 tenses) he only needs to use Je vais + an infinitive - I would have thought any teacher would have slotted that into year 8 - it's not rocket science!! So I would go ahead at home. Then he can slot it into every piece of writing/speaking that he does!!

And they shouldn't be setting targets beyond what is on their scheme of work - that is completely unreasonable and will reflect badly on them if he doesn't achieve them! It is much easier to teach the future tense than any past tense in French so I don't know why they are not doing it. He doesn't need to use 'Je jouerai au tennis' as a tense - a simple 'je vais jouer au tennis' would be fine. We teach the immediate future in year 8 and the simple future in year 10.

Original poster

roisin · 14/11/2011 17:04

Tinuviel - can I bend your ear on another issue?
ds2 (in yr8), last year did a term each of 3 languages; this year he's continuing with German and French - 3 lessons a fortnight of each.

His target is higher than anyone else in the class. I can't remember what it is, but it would necessitate him using 3 different tenses. And they don't teach future tense in yr8.
The German teacher told him he will give him some extension work, so that he can learn the future tense and achieve his target.
The French teacher told him he won't learn the future tense this year, so won't achieve his target, tough.

He loves a challenge and came home and asked me if I would teach him the future tense in French because he wanted to achieve his end of year target. I explained to him that the future tense is much more straightforward in German than in French, which is why he's got the response he has ...

Now, obviously I need to contact the French teacher, but what should I say? I don't want to dampen his enthusiasm and determination, but I also don't want to offend her. Do you think I should offer to do some simple future tense work with him at home, or not?

OP posts:

Tinuviel · 14/11/2011 10:54

As a MFL teacher and as a parent, I would always point them in the direction of a dictionary, usually with the comment that I do not have 'Collins' stamped on my forehead nor indeed on any other part of my anatomy. Even DD (9) knows not to ask!

Original poster

roisin · 12/11/2011 17:07

I went upstairs to read my book ... and promptly fell asleep!
When I came back down he's done his homework :-)

It's not perfect, but I think it's good enough. And he'll learn more from the teacher correcting it than me doing so at this point.

His grammar is very good actually, but his vocab is quite narrow imo; so that's what he needs to work on.

CrosswordAddict; He isn't lazy as such, but he doesn't have a very busy/full life atm, and tends to prevaricate for hours about relatively simple homeworks, which drives me nuts. ds2 is crazily busy with activities and rattles through any homework very efficiently!

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Renniehorta · 12/11/2011 16:40

Don't use google translate. If you don't know what you are doing you can end up with complete garbage and will have learnt nothing.

wordreference.com however is brilliant for contextualising vocab.

Acanthus · 12/11/2011 16:40

And repeat:

It's your homework, not mine.

Renniehorta · 12/11/2011 16:38

I would definitely get him to do it himself. Encourage him to systematically write down in German and English what he has found. A small botebook is good for that. He should also note down the gender of nouns and whether a verb is regular or not.

When he has finished I would check any spellings he has included from the dictionary. It is amazing how many students always choose the first word from any list regardless of the context. Also check that he is actually using a German words again many students write down things like pron, fem, or masc.

You can use the list of vocab in the notebook for quick tests to see if he remembers the words he has used.

exoticfruits · 12/11/2011 16:28

I never see the point of sulking. Let him sulk.

belgo · 12/11/2011 16:27

google translate.

mycatsaysach · 12/11/2011 16:23

nickelbabe · 12/11/2011 16:22

(es ist auch meine Lieblingswort )

mycatsaysach · 12/11/2011 16:16

danke

nickelbabe · 12/11/2011 16:14

Schwarzwälderkirschtorte

nickelbabe · 12/11/2011 16:14

schwarzwaelderkirschtorte (no n, and an e if you're not using an A+umlaut)

mycatsaysach · 12/11/2011 15:50

schwarzwalderkirschtorten

my best german word ever

nickelbabe · 12/11/2011 15:46

plus - you've also got the problem (if you tell him the words) of choosing the wrong word for the context.

If he looks it up in the dictionary, it should provide him with a usage comment.

ZZZenAgain · 12/11/2011 15:06

tbh it wouldn't be any real skin off my nose to throw the translations at him so I would have just done that, but if it bothers you and you tell him to look them up instead, it's your business really. Don't really know what you are asking here tbh

Mutt · 12/11/2011 15:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cory · 12/11/2011 15:02

Dictionary training is the best thing you can give him- stand firm! It makes life so much easier later on.

volumnia · 12/11/2011 13:54

He doesn't sound especially lazy. I'd give him the answer sometimes, (well I would if I could speak german) depending how I was feeling/what I was doing - why not?

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