Setting in secondary schools

Ha, mumslife, I'm arguing against the EBacc for that very reason on another thread! My DS just can't get to grips with French and will fail the EBacc, but he's very good at maths and science. I don't want him 'persuaded' to do a GCSE that he will get a low grade at rather than one not in the EBacc he may excel at.

(It was me who called streaming a lazy system.)

An additional problem with streaming is that there tends to be much less movement between groups: it's almost as permanent as passing the 11+ and going to Grammar School.

In my school (where we set for most subjects) if an English teacher, say, has a child in their class who is obviously mis-placed, they'll have a chat with the Head of Department, have a chat with the teacher of the appropriate set up/down; and hey presto the child isn't mis-placed any more.

Streaming however is becoming more popular in schools because of the A*-C key measures and Ebacc. Schools justify this by saying what they need is all-round ability in a range of subjects, especially all core subjects.

My boys' school sets students for each subject. There is a core who are in "top sets for everything", but it's not as many as I would have expected: maybe about 10 students. This shows how important setting is as opposed to streaming, for individual appropriate teaching/learning/progress...

NEScribe, I agree with cat64.

Setting is by ability in a particular subject. So you are in the right set for your ability in that subject.

A halfway house is grouping subjects for timetabling purposes, like setting humanities with English, science with maths etc.

Streaming is putting all the brighter kids in the top group for everything, average in the middle groups and lower ability in the bottom group. This doesn't allow for those DC who perhaps excel in maths or languages but are average at everything else. I'm sure it makes timetabling easier, but it seems a poor and lazy system to me. It does sound like your DD's school is streaming.

My DS's school sets in nearly every subject individually by Xmas Y7. Another local school has 4 streams.

DD1's school SET rather than stream, though not in every subject.

By half term in yr7 they had set for English, Maths & PE.
Scoence was set from yr8.
The technologies were done in fairly random groups, slightly smaller than form groups. Everything else in form group.

So far (DD1 now yr10) no furhter subjects set, and none of the optional subjects. Those in top set science who opted NOT to take triple had to move down a set.

Suspect timetabling would be difficult to set further, as their options are not done in bands, nearly all got their choices without having to change.

Most schools I looked at set from Y7, but the school DS attends doesn't set untill Y8, when they set for English, Maths, and I think science. But then there are only "foundation" and "higher".

My DSs' school sets by subject rather than streaming, from Xmas in Y7, which is just as well for my DS1, who is very good at maths, good at science but just average for English, history and RE etc. This means he is in the top set for maths, set 2 for science, 3 for history etc. Streaming children, even if there are Arts and Sciences streams is not going to work for those DC with 'spiky profiles.'

Streaming was the main thing that put me off one local school, where DC are streamed into P, Q, R or S, the same for every subject, so DC have all lessons with the same 30 or so children y7 to y9. My DS1 now has lessons with over half the DC in his year at school, lots of potential for making friends from a bigger pool of DC.

DS3's school seems to have a pretty good system.

In year 7 they are set for English and that same set stays together for Humnaities.
They are also set for Maths and the same sets are used for Science.
No setting for DT/Arts etc.

In year 8 there is some movement according to how you have performed throughout year 7.

At DD's school, they stream by general ability into 4 or 5 streams and then set them for each subject according to ability within the stream. It seems to then stay fairly much set until they choose their options for Y9 when they are set according to ability from the pupils choosing each option.

If you are at all worried, make an appointment to go in and talk to the HoY asap. They should be able to answer all your concerns and take it to someone higher if necessary.

Talking, that is exactly how ds's school do it. 300 kids per year, split into two bands. They stream each band into 6 sets. Then in Y10 all gets mixed up again depending on options chosen.

My kids school has year groups of 300 BUT they split the year into 2 bands and then each band into 5 sets - so there are 2 set 1 etc
until year 10 when they merge the bands
it seems to work

G&T will no longer be 10% anyway. All G&T lists are being stripped right down to include only those students who are 'exceptional' in ability/aptitude. Previous to that, because of the 10% guidance, students could be nominated to be G&T in a subject if they were very good at it, which doesn't necessary tally with being gifted or talented.

The 'new' G&T lists will therefore be much smaller but perhaps more meaningful, if the schools provide the right support.

So they are streaming on the basis of ability tests rather than setting?

Most schools don't have enough G and T to have one set for them (at 10% you'd need a year of 300 to get one class of 30). Also G and T kids vary wildly, so may be G and T at one subject and not another, or some learn better in different way. Also some are more likely to be spotted than others, eg. those who sit and write long essays rather than those who are a bit more off the wall.

You have to ask the individual school. Ours sets in Yr 7, but one other school we saw at open evening said they didn't.

DCs school only really sets for Maths in year 7, (and loosely for Languages at the end). Then set for Science and MAths in year 8, loosely for English and MFL. Most is still mixed ability in year 9. Then Core subjects set (independently) in year 10 & 11, with movement between some sets still possible.
This is a school which gets very good results. But it does also clamp down hard on behaviour.

Thanks onceagain, looking on their website is a good idea.

DS is in Y8. In Y7 all classes were set based on KS2 SAT results. So he was in the same class for all lessons.
Now in Y8 they are set for all subjects. Some subjects are tied together, so if in top set for maths you are also top set for science and ict. And your english set determines your humanities sets.

Hth.

My DC's school has setting which IMO is a good thing. My ds is in year 9 and a bit lazy. I have stressed to him how important it is to get in the higher sets if he can.

I worked in a school where they were only set for maths. The understanding was the bright ones would bring the not so bright ones along. I felt it was unfair on the more academic kids as they were held back. It was uncool to work hard.