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Original poster

How many hours HW/night in Yr 7...and how do you help them tackle it?

89 replies

Solo2 · 14/10/2011 19:43

DTs - currently in Yr 6 - get about 1 hour's homework a night but a lot of that can be spread into the w/e too.

In Yr 7, the official number of hour's homework/night will be 2 hours every night, with an average of 3 subjects per night. There will still be some flexibility over the week/ w/e but it looks as if most children do end up doing the full 2 hrs per night to manage the work load (this is a v academic school BTW, so none of this is a surprise).

I was wondering if this was about average in terms of numbers of hrs/night for 11 yr olds? I was also wondering how best to support my twin sons with this volume of work (which wouldn't include additional musical instrument practice each night as well - in theory!)?

Currently in Yr 6, one DT is largely independent now, able to focus on organising his work, getting it done but is still often tired and needs to leave some till the w/e. So it mounts up. Other DT needs much more support in terms of getting down to it, presenting it in an acceptable way (slapdash/ get away with minimal effort sort of boy, as many are!) and staying 'on task'. Lots of w/es are taken up with homework staggered across the entire w/e and nothing much else and it's only going to get harder.

Occasionally, both get homework (usually maths) that they struggle with and need my support and can easily take 2 full hrs to do that homework alone on one night, although they're supposed to stop at one hr really.

I'm trying to plan for the following year when they're in the senior part of the school and wonder how others support their DCs (especially boys) at that stage? Do you force them to get it done from the minute they arrive home - or have a break first and some food? If we do that now, then they get too tired to tackel it later and so it mounts up and takes over the w/e.

Tell me your typical experiences with 11 yr olds and how to help them manage at least 2 hrs work after school - and possibly after an evening club too?

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 19/10/2011 10:21

If they have covered the stuff they're doing at gcse aged 13 are you then suggesting that they stall and do it all over again until they're 16? Unless they sit their GCSEs at 13 then go onto A-level, what is the point in having completed the gcse course at 13?

What level of work are they doing in maths? As in national curriculum level?

I don't think you're going to find a school, by the way, that only sets homework in the subjects your children are weak at.

Original poster
Solo2 · 19/10/2011 09:56

I was 'told off' for letting DCs spend 2 hrs - with my help - on maths and haven't let them do so much since. Yes, they're supposed to spend no more than 50 mins per night, at present - so if that's one subject - then that's just under an hr for it - but if it's more than one, then the entire amount should only take up to an hr. Lots can be carried into the w/e or over a 2 week period too.

The maths is an ongoing issue as neither of my DCs is much good at it, for a school of this kind (although would probably be fine if it were aged 10 level, as opposed to aged 12 to 13). They're in the second from the bottom set of 4 sets - so not really, really struggling...more, 'holding their own'. It was because I wanted to see if I could find out exactly what aspect of that topic they were struggling with and then see if I could help them in a different way to understand it.

My OP relates to what to expect in Yr 7 - a whole other year onwards, when they're in the seniors and I'm told will expect to do more HW per night. For the first 2 yrs, the maths groups are suddenly no longer 'set' and I'm worried about how my DTs will cope in a class with literally 'genius' level mathematicians (eg one of DT2s best friends has recently come in the top few of a national maths competitions for children in an older age group than he is!). It's 34 + yrs since i limped through my maths GCSE and so I'm hardly the best person to help DTs with this subject.

Presumably there must be provision for a range of ability even at a school like this and hopefully all will be well. It's not like either is failing completely - just that this is a subject that they both have to spend more time on than the high fliers.

OP posts:
takeonboard · 19/10/2011 09:32

Do the teachers give guidelines as to how long each piece of homework should take?
My DS is at a very selective independent in year 6 he gets 11 pieces of homework a week in year 7 it will be 14 pieces of homework a week, the school stress that every piece can and should be done in 30 minutes. Time taken is recorded in the home/school diary so if a child is spending longer than 30 minutes then there is a problem with that subject and the subject teacher will focus on improvement.

The school also stress that although homework is to be done at home, parents are not supposed to help in any way at all. As a full time worker I wouldn't be able to even if I wanted to help!

If they are spending 2 hours doing maths alone with your help then I would question whether this is the right school for them, after all the teachers should only be sending home work that they are confident the kids have grasped.

My DS scoots through his homework as quick as he can, so that he can get on with being a 10 year old boy - isn't that what its all about, otherwise being clever is just a curse.

wordfactory · 19/10/2011 09:14

Not consequently needs more input...coincidentally needs it.

Different personalities you see.

wordfactory · 19/10/2011 09:12

Acceleration is a difficult issue.

I must admit, as a mother, to instinctively feeling it A Bad Thing. Consequently I have had many an erm heated conversation with DS school.

However, I have come to see over time that for DS acceleration is the right thing. He thrives on it. The work load is heavy but not arduous and still leaves plenty of time for a braod curriculum (cooking, pottery, PE etc) and lots of outside interests (footie, cricket, cross country, choir). I could not stomach it otherwise.

Homework is around an hour per day (ye 8). But DS often does larger tranches at the weekend and small bouts or nothing on weekday evenings. There is also one after school extra session in French.

As for my input...well, DS gets on with a lot of it himself. I am here to test if need be, or read through if requested.

However , such a regime only suits certain DC. My son's sister would rather die than do this. She is much less accelerated, has less HW, yet consequently needs more input.

Original poster
Solo2 · 19/10/2011 08:22

Not simple at all, Seeker! This is the school that suits both of them best and no school is a perfect fit for any child. DT2 is closer to 'perfect fit' than DT1 but it's good enough compared with the other choices locally. I've had lots of problems with various aspects of the school but so far never enough to take them out and put them somewhere else and when I've looked into other options, it's made me realise that where they are is most likely the best place for them and any school will have problems too.

Yellowstone, I think the school believe that the kind of children they have there thrive on being stretched and are more than ready for work 2 to 3 yrs ahead. It's the same argument as people who say never teach your child to read before they begin school - on principle. If a child is desperately wanting to read at age 2 for example, then why not give them the skills to do so. I think the school works along the same line - if the children there are ready to delve into 13+ maths, science, Eng. etc at age 10, then why not help them onwards.

In reality, it won't always work with every child and every subject but even then I presume it means that if you've covered stuff at age 13 that you'll be doing for GCSEs then by the time you reach GCSEs, it'll be easier than if you're starting that stuff afresh?

Anyway, this is all presumption really. I'll have to see how it goes for my DTs. This year - Yr 6 - is a good year fro them so far but that can change and the senior part of the school may not be what we hope or expect.

OP posts:
seeker · 18/10/2011 23:00

So send them to a different school. Simple.

Yellowstone · 18/10/2011 22:20

I honestly can't see any particular merit in being three years ahead. What's the hurry?

Original poster
Solo2 · 18/10/2011 19:52

They're at this school despite rather than because of the HW! As a single parent running a f/t business singlehandedly, adding in the necessary HW support is just another stress to be honest. But that's part of the way it works at their school.

DT2 LOVES English and writes things like poems, drama scripts, novels for pleasure. DT1 is more a typical 10 yr old and is doing well at Englsih but nowhere like G & T of his twin. Both struggle with the maths and DT2 struggles massively witht he Physics.

But this is indeed a school where little 'boffins' thrive and are winning national awards in sciences and maths from Yr 5 and 6 onwards. So the level of these subjects is about 2 yrs ahead of elsewhere and by O level stage, most children have already done one or 2 GCSEs already.

There used to be an entrance exam to get into the senior part of the school. Now there isn't and only students form outside the system have to sit and pass the exam. However, this means the school is keen to show it hasn't lost it's 'edge' in terms of rigorous academic selection and so I presume continues to push them hard in and out of school.

Many of the children are more than 3 yrs ahead in things like maths and physics so the level they're working at is actually easy for them. one of DT2s friends for example didn't even need to revise for a recent Physics test to get 100% but needed plenty of parental support to write the sonnets. DT2 was the other way round and went off happily and wrote his 2 creditable sonnets but couldn't make headway in understanding the physics without my support.

So of course no child can do everything. Some children, like DT1 - are pretty level in all subjects (although he doesn't shine in anything academic - only in drama!) and others are genius level in one thing and OK enough in the others.

As I said in an earlier post here, I'd rather each child get HW only in what he needs more help with and not have to do all the boring and endless Geography HW, the History, the French etc etc which just feels too much.

OP posts:
hackneyLass · 18/10/2011 00:27

My DS in year 6 does no homework. I have told him its going to be a bit different when he goes to secondary school...

ragged · 17/10/2011 18:37

Good detective work, Yellowstone.
Yet another definition of "top" university I shall strive to avoid gnashing teeth about ignore.

breadandbutterfly · 17/10/2011 16:55

I suppose it's horses for courses. If the OP wants to hear that loads of kids at good, academic schools are doing 2 hours homework a night in yr 7, or 1hr in yr 6, I think she's going to be disappointed. But she claims her dts are OK with it, and has chosen that school despite (because?) of it.

Personally, my dcs never seem to have enough hours in the day, so haven't the faintest idea where they'd fit in 2 hours a day; I know I would end up ill with stress trying to coordinate 3 different lots of 2 hours - logistically, we don't have enough separate, quiet, suitable places for them all to do the work; they'd end up taking turns at eating/sleeping to fit it all in. Grin

My younger 2 are at primary - the one in yr 5 probably gets rather less than 2 hours a week, but she is painstakingly slow, so could easily double that. Whilst my dd in year 7 appears to be getting top marks despite spending only about a third of the school's recommended hour and a half per night. I don't think our family life or any of our mental health would stand up to them all getting 2hrs/night - I work and would never have time to check they'd done it let alone help them in any way.

I wonder whether this pressure is in any way linked to 11+ or more likely Common Entrance pressure? On 11+ forums there are certainly parents who give their kids an hour or more work a night in yr 6 or below in order to get their kids through these? Does your dts school pride itself on high results at this level?

Otherwise, there seems absolutely no need at this level - whilst writing sonnets, say, may or may not be fun for a 10 year old boy it is certainly not a required part of the national curriculum at this or any age. Agree that the physics seems (unnecessarily?) advanced for year 6 - they're not going to need that level of knowledge till they're 16, exam-wise, so why teach it at 10-11? What are they going to be teaching at 13-14? A Levels?

Obviously, if your sons are budding physicists or poets, that's great. But few people at the age of 10 are both budding physicists AND poets, so the pressure of HAVING to write sonnets or whatever at this age seems a little harsh. I think those sorts of activities sound great and spot on for the G&T kids who are already ahead and v motivated, but really a bit unnecessary for the others. I'd imagine demanding your average 10 year old boy write a couple of sonnets a night before being allowed to chill would put most 10-year-old boys very firmly off poetry for life. Grin

themed · 17/10/2011 15:27

But doesn't it depend on the child, ie how long it takes to do the homework?
I went to the same school as my brother, I used to spend an hour or two max a day doing homework, whilst I remember his whole teenage years he was glued to his desk, sometimes until midnight. It was a mix of perfectionism and messing around, daydreaming and distraction.

We ended up with exactly the same GSCE's and A-levels (spooky) but he did triple the hours of homework! So could it be that it just takes some children longer to do the same amount of work?

Yellowstone · 17/10/2011 14:45

I can see now the 'selective' universities are the Sutton Trust 30:

Bath, Birmingham, Bristol, Cambridge, Cardiff, Durham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Glasgow, Imperial, KCL, Lancaster, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, LSE, Manchester, Newcastle, Nottingham, Oxford, Reading, RHUL, Sheffield, Southampton, St. Andrews, Strathclyde, Surrey, UCL, Warwick and York.

bonkers20 · 17/10/2011 13:49

Interesting link ragged. Thanks. My DSs comprehensive sends 71% of 6th formers to Uni (22% top). He gets nowhere near 2hrs homework a night!
We are in Essex (nearer to Cambridgeshire, not London).

Yellowstone · 17/10/2011 11:15

All I know is that our school doesn't do anything like 2 hours a day in Y7 and still scores very high in the Guardian table (which is consistent with the leavers' figures that I know).

Maybe the three hour figure at Westminster is for the Sixth Form, not the Under School? And tbh Westminster is fairly unique. To make a child labour for two hours a day to be in the same place as peers who did a fraction of that, that makes no sense at all.

ragged · 17/10/2011 10:20

Maybe the Gruaniad totally blew it when they said "selective" = Oxbridge.

I found a comment about a commitment of 3 hours/daily homework for Westminster College (lost link just now in laptop crash), but can't find numbers for any other elite Indies, not Eton, SP, or even the elite schools in county where I live; DD has a youth leader in Guides who attends Norwich HSfG and I think her dad once told me she had about 30-60 mins worth of daily h/w in y8.... She was out of the house 7:30am-4:30pm every day, so not a lot of time for more h/w, really.

Queen Ethelberga (horsey indie boarding school, pony mad DD gets their brochures) they brag about how well their leavers do, publishing exact numbers and exactly which Uni (plenty of ex-polys on the list!), and they only get a handful into Oxbridge (less than 5%, I think).

Yellowstone · 17/10/2011 09:46

I can see from looking at our school that the stats must include RG and 1994 universities as well as Oxford and Cambridge. 35% to Oxford and Cambridge alone is phenomenally high but I understood that level of Oxbridge success to be the preserve of a small number of incredibly selective London schools.

What is the homework policy like at Westminster and SPGS in Y7?

Yellowstone · 17/10/2011 08:39

Thanks for the link again ragged. The numbers definitely include more universities than Oxford and Cambridge but I can't see exactly what that is.

I completely agree about the MN obsession, it's not worth this level of pain. I don't think it's that which determines whether a child gets to either of those two universities either, it won't make or break it either way (except possibly for turning a child right off the learning process I suppose:)).

ragged · 17/10/2011 07:36

That link is to a Guardian article which has another link to a spreadsheet listing the % of leavers that go to "selective schools", ie Oxbridge. Plenty of the % numbers go over 35%.

Try link again.

tbh, it kind of consolidates for me why I don't want to share in the MN obsession with getting offspring into "top Universities" (ie, Oxbridge, or Russell Group). Because if a handful of schools are dominating entrance that much, if 2 hours daily homework for 11-12 year olds is what it takes, then I don't want it. Life is a journey not just a destination, and that journey isn't one DC can or should take, imho.

swanriver · 16/10/2011 23:32

Anyway, who cares what the school claims to be, it's whether your particular dcs are going to be happy there.
Fwiw, a friend of mine said she thought private schools were a con (she sends her two sons private after a bad experience at state) because essentially she did half the teachingwork (getting her children to do enormous amounts of homework). Yes the academic results were much better, but she was paying the school to set her work out of hours!!! Yet she still continues to send them to a private school whilst doing a lot of silent muttering/worrying about 11plus exams, tutoring etc. It seems to be a bit of a chicken and egg situation. The private schools have just upped the parental ante, making it impossible to challenge their policies on the basis that: you are sending your child there so you have buy into their whole ethos of hw etc, without challenging it, because this is going to guarantee their academic success. And round it goes, causing considerable parental stress.

Yellowstone · 16/10/2011 23:28

Not your kids in particular but all kids at those sort of schools.

Yellowstone · 16/10/2011 23:25

I'm having trouble with your link ragged but 35% is actually an enormously high rate for leavers going to Oxford/ Cambridge and only about three schools regularly top that.

Nevertheless I'd question whether this level of oppression is worth it, even for that particular prize.

Also, that Physics! In Y6!

Anyhow, believe me, there are easier and pleasanter ways to facilitate children getting to a decent university which is laid back enough to encompass the evils of X-Box, TV (lots), no Grade 8's, hanging about, Facebook, dubious clubs and all that kind of stuff.

I'd have gone dippy with your kind of regime OP, it sounds truly dreadful and I genuinely feel for the kids.

swanriver · 16/10/2011 23:22

I think what is interesting is how much more your twins know already compared to my yr 7. His school is a "Science Specialist" secondary, yet so far he has had only one test. Yr 6 of his primary taught none of the physics you have described. Yr 6 certainly didn't teach sonnets. But we didn't have anythng like the pressure you describe homework wise. Yr 7 has come as a bit of a shock, but I think for a seasoned homeworker the homework he gets probably only works out at I hour a night...just he's not used to doing it efficiently.

So it may be a question of you "pays your money and you takes your choice" whatever the phrase is.

I used to spend hours at a private, highly academic, secondary doing homework. Very well. I don't remember it being particularly galling to have to do it, it just seemed normal. But although I got very good O'levels, my A-levels weren't so hot. The habit of homework is not necessarily something that continues into the teenage years, whatever people may claim Hmm
I don't think just keeping the nose to the grindstone guarantees success, academic schools have dropouts, just you never hear about them Hmm

seeker · 16/10/2011 20:15

How does 2 hours a night homework for year 7s add value?