Any real moral difference between a short term let for admission purposes or permanently moving

Actually, more on the carrots - what the current system is like, is that the people who have been assigned the supply of organic carrots feel they have a not just a legal but a moral right to them. If the people who have been assigned mouldy carrots think they would rather swap them for organic, well tough!

"Is it morally wrong to buy the larger house with the absolute purpose of getting into a brilliant state school when you can afford private? "

The issue though is that - for state schools at any rate - it's a state provision that comes out of general taxation and should be accessible, and equally good, for all.

Comparing it to organic carrots would only work if carrots were free from your local council, and they gave people in certain areas organic ones and people in other areas rotten manky ones.

wecheated- But you didn't cheat did you? You were following the rules!!
You have done absolutely nothing wrong!! We did the same (although we didn't in the end move back to the family home, we remortgaged it and bought another property in catchment)

Interesting web post on educational advantage and the middle classes

Unless buying organic is morally wrong, having a nicer safer car is morally wrong, everything that money buys better is morally wrong, which you may think it is, it is not morally wrong to do the best by your child. Is it morally wrong to buy the larger house with the absolute purpose of getting into a brilliant state school when you can afford private? Pushing up house prices, is that morally wrong? Is it morally wrong to make choices for your child that are better than others? Is unfair morally wrong?

See this argument, for me living in Bristol, is that only the wealthy children get private or best state education. The new secondary was built in the middle of one of the most expensive areas.

We live in a capitalist society, it starts early, may be shit, may be great depends how slick your paddle is.

I remember at nursery my daughter didn't get a place at the 'best' one. I was distraught and went with the local one and it was brilliant. Brilliant facilities, brilliant staff, brilliant everything. Only around 15 kids in each day, for 3 well trained lovely staff.

Then for school we were worried again. Again we went to the default school. Turned out to be excellent. People were fearful and sneering about it, many white middle class parents took their kids out as soon as they could but it was a happy ending for us, a good school that could handle any problem that was thrown at them.

Again for secondary school it has been much the same. I still hear people mention the school name with dread and fear, talking about the 'intake' as though it were a euphemism for 'scum'. But dd is fine, learning well and everything's OK.

Sometimes life is what you make it and schools are no different.

i have a few years to decide which school dd1 goes to. if the catchment school doesnt improve i will readily move to an area with a succesfull school. rent or buy.

"LOL! Do you really think schools would put that information on their website?"

Well, they do put their SATs results on their websites- that's a pretty good indicator!

Custard, thank you. I'm glad you see it that way, as I do too.

There were children admitted from teh waiting list after my child was awarded his place though, and the school has not gone over PAN to admit my child. They just offered one less waiting list child a place than they would have done otherwise. I know it's different for primary/infant school admissions.

After a very quick google, I found this on the National literacy Trust web site

The number of children achieving the expected levels for reading at age eleven is 84% in 2011

Which means 16% of children are not achieving expected levels. That is a lot imo, considering that not all of those children are likely to have SEN. Which in turn means that there must be schools out there that are failing to get NT children achieveing expected levels at age 11. I would say that is quite crap.

LOL! Do you really think schools would put that information on their website?

Or are you denying that it happens?

"How would you prefer to describe a school that has a significant number of children in year six who are barely literate?"

Give me a link to one and I'll tell you.

Describing a school as crap is not morally wrong That's just silly.

It's not very informative or descriptive because we all have different opinions of what crap means, but some schools are crap.

How would you prefer to describe a school that has a significant number of children in year six who are barely literate?

I don't think it matters whether we are talking about primary or secondary tbh.

I think it's morally wrong to describe a school as "crap"

Ok, so we disagree on that, that's fine

What would you say about something that is the reality of my situation then? I appealed to get my child into a grammar school. He passed, but wasn't high enough on the waiting list to have a chance of getting a place. I won our appeal because we had a very strong case. There is no point going into the detail of that, but it is a superselective school (so appeals aren't just part of teh system as they are in some areas) that is notoriously hard to get into, especially on appeal. But a panel of independent people decided that my child deserved a place and that our case was strong enough.

In appealing, and subsequently winning, a child who was on the waiting list and would have been offered a place if it weren't for us, missed out. Obviously I will never know if that child had parents who would either have to use a crap comp, or would decide to go private, but either way, my actions have meant that another child has been denied a place at an outstanding school.

Is that morally wrong too?

But if it is about primary schools, then I feel even more strongly that dismissing a school as "crap" is snobbish and shortsighted.

I don't think there are many primary schools with police officers on site!

Sorry, I thought this thread was about secondary schools. My mistake.

Seeker, I am not 'Mumsnetters' and I'm sure others will have different opinions to me on what constitues a crap school. I didn't mention percentage of children with SEN or on FSM, because I wouldn't use that in my judgement of a school.

The school my dc were lucky enough to go to was also a run of the mill primary school. It is rated 'good with outstanding' but it is not significantly any better or any worse than any othe the other schools in the area. The standard of behaviour is fine, it doesn't need a police officer there to make that happen, it just happens! There are children from different backgrounds - children from different races, religions, backgrounds, and in any school where there are so many people there will always be the opportunity to get to know who you don't like and want to avoid, and how to get on with everybody when you have to anyway. That is not something that is only available in a 'crap' school, or is completely missing from a 'tiny leafy village school'.

It is wierd how people talk as if children are missing out on something major if they go to a 'nice' school. They are not.

I do completley understand what you are saying, and I know others have already disagreed with me on this. But I wouldn't be condeming another child to anything that my own child wouldn't be condemed to if I did nothing.

I think talk of 'victims' is a bit extreme. I disagree that I'm creating a victim, because if anyone is going to be a victim then I haven't created that, I've just changed who that person is going to be.

I don't see it as 'ruining the chances of other children for my own gain' at all. I shouldn't be put in a position where the only option of my child's chances not being ruined have to be at the expense of someone else's in the first place. But I don't have the power to change that.

My child is morally entitled to the same standard of education as anyone else. And if I use legal means to get my child into a particular school, then my child is legally entitled to that place.