'Foundation' GSCE Maths - what's it all about??

cardibach, 2 levels progress is 'expected' from KS3 to KS4 and this would indeed lead you to 'expect' a B from a level 6. However, that is failing to acknowledge that the vast majority of students currently do not make the expected level of progress in maths between KS3 and KS4. In 2007 only 28% of students made this expected level of progress in maths nationally - in English, however, it was 56%, therefore I think that my comment that it is different for maths is fair.

It is one thing to say that a student with a level 6 should be expected to get a B, realistically looking at the data, I would predict a C - although obviously the higher the 6, the higher the chance of a B.

But the consequences of sitting a Higher paper & screwing it up are that you leave with zilch.

I'm a GCSE examiner for English Literature. I mark the Higher paper & I see a heck of a lot of crap entry tier decisions, the result of which is that some poor kid will not be having a GCSE awarded at all. On a Foundation paper, they'd have attained a useful grade.

If I taught this lad, & I thought his prospects of a B were not secure, I'd be considering entering him for Foundation. Yes, risk that he comes out with a C & could've got a B, but the Higher option is to risk that he comes out with no result at all & could've got a C.

The question to be asked is why the teacher doesn't feel he's a safe bet for a B, & is this a decision which can be revised as he progresses - which is why the OP needs more information from the horse's mouth.

What I mean is, he should have the opportunity to prove that he will work and progress to achieve that target - taht can only be done on Higher Tier, so the presumption at this stage should be that he will sit it.

Level 6 leads to target Greade B. All subjects. It isn't 'different for Maths' in any school I've worked in: in fact our Head of Maths says it is pretty accurate for Maths. Pupils are expected to put on two levels during KS4, and Bis equivalent to Level 8.

If he is a Level 6, he should sit the Higher Tier Paper.

Does the school do early entry?

I teach English & it may be different, but we enter students in November of Year 11. Everyone does Foundation unless their teacher thinks they are a safe B or above.

If they get a C, a discussion then takes place as to whether they could realistically aim to sit the Higher paper in June (obviously if they miss the C, they re-sit Foundation in June).

If your ds is C/B borderline, that may be the plan. Current level 6, with tuition, would suggest a predicted C & a possible B I'd think.

You may also be right that students with SEN are being kept together, with a TA & possibly a teacher who is more experienced or able in working with them. It's possible that the set above is much bigger, or has a less experienced/weaker teacher & this is why the HOD thinks your ds will do better where he's been placed?

You really need to talk to the HOD & ask him/her to outline the reasoning.

You don?t sound like a loon, you sound like you?re rightly trying to stop closing doors.
Agree with all Talker?s points. We've just started A level physics, def needs maths above gcse C.

Don?t mean to be controversial, but those predictors are predictors of if your son continues to learn/be taught the way he currently is, not necessarily of his actual ability or not, which is why I?d be looking at how much of a match their teaching and his learning styles are, before deciding it?s his capability or not.

Maybe he isn?t great at maths, but maybe that he?s not lower ability in it, just has different learning needs that aren?t being met. Just a thought.

I spent my time being told all about predictor levels and xyz justifying why my ASD son couldn?t do all sorts. Then discovered he didn?t learn in a linear way, (common in ASD) but that?s how he was taught and tested, consequently he always sunk to the bottom or close to bottom level ability groups, where he continued to be taught in a linear way, making less and less progress and being written off.

That was three years ago. (he was being pulled from exam groups end of yr 8)
However he?s just got an A* in maths. We used internet programmes with barely numerate mum helping and encouraging as best as could. His problems in school weren?t about his ability, but how his learning disability (or learning differences as we now see it) wasn?t properly understood or met.

If you?ve a very different child, you may need a very different set of predictors and very different teaching methods to achieve their best. I?d keep your foot firmly in those doors, unless you?re sure removing it's ok. Good luck.

My DD got level 8 at the end of KS3, A* at GCSE and found Maths A level incredibly hard as she has somewhat inflexible thinking patterns and found the demands challenging to meet.
Have they made decisions previously that you feel were driven by his dx and not his abilities?

My DSS was pretty good at maths at GCSE - got an A (might have even been A* thinking about it) but found A level maths really really tough going and packed up after the AS year.

noble is right though op

my ds has just finished his as level maths
he got a high b in gcse after a tutor - then finished up with a u in as
he says as soon as they began their a level lessons at college it was a or a* students all the way.in his words he was left behind at the very beginning.

Oh and ... you do not sound like a loon ... Think Post 18 to help decide post 16 and think post 16 NOW ... he needs to have the long term picture if he is going to understand how much work the next 2/4/+++ years require

At my school A levels require at least a B and Maths/Sciences usually want an A (or at least a target of an A)

We do not allow A Level Physics without A Level Maths either (this is quite common, I think)

In addition, A Level mathematicians will generally have achieved 7 or 8 at KS3 but the A Level scientists will have achieved a 7+ at that point too

I'm not sure if you were thinking of him doing A-level maths but at my school the requirement is an A or A*. He definitely doesn't sound like a potential A-level candidate.

If you think he has been setted due to SEN rather that ability, ask where his raw end of Y9 score places him in the set and the range of scores in the set above.

You say that the response was rude but I am not sure how ... difficult to tell as you have not said specifically what your query was

The set that your son is in will be doing Foundation so the "considered opinion" that the set is correct is also a belief that the entry level is correct

I would certainly say that a decision that your son is Foundation as he enters year 10 means that there is no way that your school's maths department would consider he is a suitable candidate for A Level

Any level 6 student at my school would be in a Higher set (though a 6 might mean that they were ultimately entered for Foundation depending on KS4 progress) at this stage and it would not be possible for a student to be in Triple Science and a very low maths set

The person to speak to is the HoD Maths ... I would be open minded going in ... the set decision will have been based on many points but may well have been overly influenced by his SEN requirements ... would he be able to cope in maths if he were placed in a set where there were no additional support?

That's a predictor for other subjects, it's different for maths. A level 6 in maths would generally predict a C. It's tricky now that KS3 SATs have been abolished as that level 6 will be from teacher assessment but you could always ask the school what his FFT target is from his KS2 SATs to get a rough idea of his expected progress from that.

rare = target, sorry!

The SAT results for KS3 give you the expected MINIMUM grade, not the rare grade. If he got a level 6 for Maths, he should get no less than a C, but may well be capable if achieving more.

Does your son enjoy Maths? Is he motivated to succeed? Those things are more important predictors of success than KS3 results, IMO (although obviously if he had only got a level 4 he'd be unlucky to end up with an A* even with a lot of hard work).

My AS DS is very good at science, middling at maths and a disaster at statistics.
I'd go and ask their reasoning OP, and if you decide to argue that he should do Higher tier, be prepared to do a lot of support work at home.