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Original poster

More of a WWYD actually- College now not offering 2 of the IB subjects that DD1 wanted to do

142 replies

duchesse · 27/08/2011 09:46

DD is supposed to be starting the IB at our local 6th form college in a couple of weeks. She wanted to do Maths, Physics & Chemistry at higher level, and English, French and Philosophy at standard.

Yesterday at enrollment, the college tutor announced that they are now not doing Maths at higher level, and not philosophy at all. They have come up with a cunning wheeze instead of making those that wanted higher maths do a maths A level instead, taking the exams in the January session (ie two terms shorter than usual), then cramming Maths studies (aka Maths for the non-mathematical) into the Jan-May period in time for the exam.

DD is very upset about this- she feels that maths studies will be a waste of time for her since it is barely more than a GCSE, which she just took. She's not opposed to doing History instead of Philosophy but it is looking as though the syllabus is the same as the GCSE she just took (although probably in more depth) and is dreading doing same topics for another two years.

She and I both feel that they are just doing Maths studies for easy points rather than because they feel the students will benefit from it, and that worries me about the ethos of the course. Is it just going to be about exams?

The other problem is that whilst former school goes back on Thursday 1st Sept, college does not begin until September 12th, meaning that if she decides it's not going to work out at the college, she'll already have missed 2 weeks at least of term at school if she has to go back there.

She could go back to her former (fee-paying) school and do A levels, go to the fee-paying school her sister is at and do the AQA Baccalaureate which is similar to the IB but uses A levels as its base. Or she could go along with what the college has planned. Financially we cannot afford to send her to an IB school abroad- we cannot really afford to send her back to her old school either, but her grandmother has offered to help with fees if she does need to go back.

WWYD?

OP posts:
LRDTheFeministDragon · 29/08/2011 13:22

Aw, that's great, she'll be cheered up I bet. Smile

Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 13:19

It IS good isn't it? I'm so relieved. DD has gone out to a fete so she doesn't know yet but I'm looking forward to showing her the email- she's been a bit down about this all weekend.

OP posts:
LRDTheFeministDragon · 29/08/2011 13:15

Wow, that's great isn't it? I'm impressed they want to get in touch with school too.

I expect you know, but Kings is very dedicated to making sure state school pupils get the best possible help to apply - sounds like they are taking it very seriously.

I hope your DD is feeling less worried now. Smile

Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 12:53

First reply in, from Kings, and looking good:
Dear [duchesse],

Many thanks for your email and your / your daughter's interest in King's.

We receive plenty of IB applicants at King's and have a lot of expertise in assessing this qualification. Our standard IB offer at King's is 38 points overall (including bonus points) with 7, 6 and 6 at Higher Level. We do not normally specify which subject the 7 must be in.

Of students who have been admitted to start at King's in October, we have one Medic and one Physical Natural Scientist who did the International Baccalaureate. Doing this qualification does not confer an advantage or disadvantage in our process and we are not aware of IB students being more or less likely to miss their offer in general. In terms of performance at Cambridge, we have had some excellent students who have come from an IB background.

THE MATHS ISSUE

We would have no problem at all with making an offer on the basis of both A levels and IB. The important thing is to study the subjects to the right level. If you have a look at our entrance requirements, you'll see that we admit people doing all sorts of things from all over the world (www.kings.cam.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/entrance-requirements.html) so whilst your daughter's situation may seem unusual in the UK system, in the great scheme of things it would pose us no problem. We admit strictly on academic potential and assess each application individually. And we are lucky to be able to invite people for interviews where we can sit down and work with them in person. We understand that there are differences in syllabus (and even when people are studying the same syllabus there are differences in schools, and in where people may have got up to by the time we meet them) but everyone is in the same position at interviews when we try to stretch students and see how they deal with unfamiliar material and respond to some teaching where appropriate. It isn't an interrogation interested only in what students know, but much more an opportunity for us to see how they work and think. We hope that all students, no matter what syllabus they are covering, will be doing plenty of extra work in their subjects anyway for their own interest.

SUBJECT COMBINATIONS

There are some differences in combinations since the IB has the different subject groups. For both Medicine and Natural Sciences the ideal combination would be to have 3 of Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Maths at Higher Level. Obviously a combination of Higher Biology, Physics and Chemistry would be impossible in the IB, however.

The rigour of IB Science and Maths subjects is good and we have no preference between A levels and IB. The school's realisation that not many people get 7's is testimony to the fact that IB results tend to be relatively stable - the number of people getting the highest grades tends to remain the same whereas A level statistics go up each year. You may like to have a good read of the IBO website which includes statisical bulletins showing the numbers getting each grade if you are concerned: www.ibo.org/ - note that we also have the information so there is nothing to worry about...

The big difference between IB and A levels is one of specialisation. Obviously studying IB involves keeping more subejcts going for longer (like students in many other countries). It is likely that your daughter will have views about whether she would prefer A levels or IB since they are so different. We would advise her to go with what she wants to do. The other factor is, of course, that if she takes SL Maths, she will presumably need to take one of her humanities up to Higher meaning spending more time on a subject which is not directly relevant - she would not want her performance in the maths/sciences subjects to suffer due to the extra time she needs to spend on French/History/English. I am afraid that I cannot answer your 4th question - it must be your daughter's decision. All I can say is that we would be entirely to happy to consider her whether she is doing IB, A levels or a (sensible) combination of the two. She should do what she feels would be best for her interests.

I hope that this helps.

One thing you can help me with - if possible, please could your provide a name and contact email for someone I could contact at the school to discuss IB Higher maths with them. I won't be in the office until Wednesday but I would like to have a chat with someone in the school about their maths provision in general if at all possible.

OP posts:
LRDTheFeministDragon · 29/08/2011 11:45

Can you email general admissions? Not that they will be in today either, but might be quicker getting back to you, as it's really their job unless she already knows which college she wants to go to.

Tel: +44 (0)1223 333308
Fax: +44 (0)1223 746868
Email: [email protected]

Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 11:18

I got a few out of office auto-replies saying they were back tomorrow yellow. Not expecting them to be in on August BH, even though on the whole Cambridge ignores bank holidays.

OP posts:
Yellowstone · 29/08/2011 11:16

Yes ggt, all I meant was that if duchesse's DD was going to do the AQA Bacc then the EP is part of the package.

duchesse I hope you don't find the Cambridge lot away until 5th Sept.

goinggetstough · 29/08/2011 10:31

*yellowstone" yes the EPQ is part of the AQA baccalaureate but it is also a stand alone qualification, so can be taken along side A levels. My DC has just taken his AS levels and is doing an EPQ too which he will submit early next term in the Upper Sixth.

Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 08:35

Ok, I've now emailed the college and a number of Cambridge admissions tutors. Will need to make a snappy decision in the next 3 days about what we're doing based on the answers I get.

OP posts:
Original poster
duchesse · 28/08/2011 12:27

Thank you very much all for your help.

OP posts:
MNHQ
RowanMumsnet · 28/08/2011 12:04

Hi there

Just to let you all know that we're going to move this one to 'What would you do?'

Thanks,
MNHQ

TheBride · 28/08/2011 02:17

If she's serious about studying at Cambridge, call the admissions tutor at one of the colleges and talk to them about their requirements. There's a world of difference between "minimum requirements" as posted on their website- these should be viewed as a "reserve price" rather than a "guide price" IMO. Ask them what the minimum grades were for admission to that course that year.

They can easily say "no higher maths is required" on the website, but if they have enough people with higher maths, then that still trumps not having it, all other things being equal.

EverythingInMiniature · 28/08/2011 01:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Yellowstone · 28/08/2011 00:44

duchesse if you do decide to go down the route of your DD1 joining your DD2 would she be fine with moving from a large co-ed school to an all-girls school with half the numbers? I only ask because lots of DDs would hate it and she was headed for a very different environment indeed.

Lots of posters have said stuff about the IB and Cambridge entry requirements already but I wonder if you've seen the breakdown of A2 results at your DD2's school? Cambridge at the moment seems to be taking quite a hard line with offerees who fail to get their A or A's. There's a similar breakdown on their website for your DD1's old school. Do you know what percentage of students at both get offers from Oxford and Cambridge and how that compares to other schools roundabout? There's a huge variation, but I'd have thought most options were open to your DD with her results and if her heart really is set on Cambridge then you may want to look at the stats to give her the best possible chance.

EcoLady · 28/08/2011 00:15

beanlet bit harsh - not "completely" thank you. I omitted to paste in all the details ... which were available on the link for anyone who cared to click on it www.medschl.cam.ac.uk/education/courses/cgc/

"Cambridge Matriculation requirements and pre-medical requirements (equivalents may be offered):

GCSE in Physics, Biology & Mathematics (at grade C or above), A Level Chemistry (normally passed within seven years of entry) plus AS or A level passes in two of the following: Physics, Biology, Mathematics
A first or upper second class degree in any subject
Home or EU student status"
Yellowstone · 27/08/2011 22:21

Some Cambridge colleges want Physics too.

beanlet · 27/08/2011 20:39

Eco that's COMPLETELY WRONG. Medical applicants for Cambridge HAVE to have Chemistry. www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/medicine/requirements.html#alevel

beanlet · 27/08/2011 20:33

Duchesse, just PM'd you. It's important.

moocowmoo · 27/08/2011 20:22

In my opinion, IB subjects at Higher Level are harder than the equivalent subject at A2 level. I teach Biology, and the Higher Level course covers some areas that most A-level students would probably encounter for the first time at undergraduate level. To get maximum points on the IB, (which includes level 7s in each subject), is extremely difficult and a far smaller proportion of IB students achieve this than the proportion of A level students who get straight A grades. Higher Level Maths is a very challenging course. If your daughter is exceptionally talented academically, doing the IB might work out well for her. However, I think that A-levels are the "safer" option; they are better understood by universities, (although some universities are beginning to understand the requirements of the IB a little more), she will need to study fewer subjects and there are fewer additional requirements. If she wants to do extras on top of her A-levels, she still can. I think the college's of mixing and matching the A-level and the IB does not sound great at all. I hope it all works out well for your daughter. I studied NatSci at Cambridge and I loved it!

complexnumber · 27/08/2011 19:51

I do wish the myth that you can't study Medicine at Cambridge with an IB diploma would be dispelled.

www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses/medicine/requirements.html

This site clearly states:
'The typical IB offer is 40-42 points, with 776 or 777 at Higher Level. Please note that the subject requirements at GCSE and AS/A Level also apply to the IB.'

marcopront · 27/08/2011 19:18

Another IB Maths teacher here.

IB is appropriate for Cambridge but I would say not with maths studies. I agree with complex number, it is a great course for the people it is designed for but your daughter is not one of them. Cramming for it in three months is not possible, the logic and two variable stats are not on the GCSE course and then there is the project as well.

I would also agree that they are not doing HL maths because of a lack of students which is a shame.

I think IB is a fantastic programme but if she cannot do HL maths, with the course she wants to do I would seriously consider A'levels.

EcoLady · 27/08/2011 18:24

To get into medicine at Cambridge she needs minimum of A levels in two out of Biology, Physics and Maths. www.medschl.cam.ac.uk/education/courses/cgc/

Please take proper advice on whether the IB is appropriate.

oldandcrabby · 27/08/2011 17:34

Sorry: half an hour! College is 5 minutes walk from station. Very big Sixth Form so plenty of extra curricular opportunities: trips, DofE, Ten Tors, ski trips, Drama and Music performances etc.

oldandcrabby · 27/08/2011 16:12

Have you checked out Kevicc at Totnes, they do IB or do you insist on going private? Half and hour by train from Exeter.

Original poster
duchesse · 27/08/2011 13:53

Going to ring the Admissions Tutor at our old college first thing on Tuesday, plus make an appointment to see the principal at the 6th form college on Wednesday. I know that her old school would have her back in a flash (HT has said so) and have to no reason not to think that the Maynard wouldn't have her (extra plus is we'd get a sibling discount!!). Don't think it's too much of a problem if she missed the first few days of term, just don't want her missing weeks and weeks.

OP posts: