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Original poster

More of a WWYD actually- College now not offering 2 of the IB subjects that DD1 wanted to do

142 replies

duchesse · 27/08/2011 09:46

DD is supposed to be starting the IB at our local 6th form college in a couple of weeks. She wanted to do Maths, Physics & Chemistry at higher level, and English, French and Philosophy at standard.

Yesterday at enrollment, the college tutor announced that they are now not doing Maths at higher level, and not philosophy at all. They have come up with a cunning wheeze instead of making those that wanted higher maths do a maths A level instead, taking the exams in the January session (ie two terms shorter than usual), then cramming Maths studies (aka Maths for the non-mathematical) into the Jan-May period in time for the exam.

DD is very upset about this- she feels that maths studies will be a waste of time for her since it is barely more than a GCSE, which she just took. She's not opposed to doing History instead of Philosophy but it is looking as though the syllabus is the same as the GCSE she just took (although probably in more depth) and is dreading doing same topics for another two years.

She and I both feel that they are just doing Maths studies for easy points rather than because they feel the students will benefit from it, and that worries me about the ethos of the course. Is it just going to be about exams?

The other problem is that whilst former school goes back on Thursday 1st Sept, college does not begin until September 12th, meaning that if she decides it's not going to work out at the college, she'll already have missed 2 weeks at least of term at school if she has to go back there.

She could go back to her former (fee-paying) school and do A levels, go to the fee-paying school her sister is at and do the AQA Baccalaureate which is similar to the IB but uses A levels as its base. Or she could go along with what the college has planned. Financially we cannot afford to send her to an IB school abroad- we cannot really afford to send her back to her old school either, but her grandmother has offered to help with fees if she does need to go back.

WWYD?

OP posts:
thetasigmamum · 30/08/2011 07:03

Is there not a categorisation of 'mixed'? It is ridiculous to categorise someone who spent 12 years in private education as 'state' on the basis of the final 2 years.

TheBride · 30/08/2011 00:56

To answer the point about whether she'll be considered a state of private pupil, the answer is two-fold

  • Obviously the college to which she applies will be aware that she has a mixed background (private/state) so they'll see the whole picture when deciding on admissions. No advantage/no disadvantage, as it should be.
  • In terms of the stats issued by the college/University which indicate intake from private or state, she'll be classed as state as that was "port of last call". As these stats just get used by successive governments to berate Oxbridge for their own failings, probably no harm done there.
Yellowstone · 29/08/2011 23:52

duchesse why did you think it necessary to start saying a kid from St. James' with 10 A's must be better than any kid with any number of A*'s from the school my lot goes to? It was entirely irrelevant and unprovoked! I genuinely can't think why you needed to make a comparison.

Yeah, I know about refugee stuff too. My dad was a refugee froma war torn country. Came here with a mum, a suitcase and nothing else.

Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 23:29

I'm just not sure why it's even mildly contentious to think that a candidate from a failing school who picks up a string of As might just conceivably be a better and more attractive candidate than any of our super-selected lot. Especially when you consider than St James is where most of the refugee children from war-torn Afghanistan are sent and that the girls generally haven't had any education at all. I cited the example of my friend as someone who had triumphed over the odds, not just of her family background, but also of her school. Again, not especially contentious to suggest that maybe she is brighter and more motivated than many selected kids in a nice quiet environment.

FWIW I don't think you can coach an unable child to A*. A or B maybe at a pinch. They have to have a bit of something between the ears to get 90-100% on things.

I suspect that few of the parents at my children's school (and I've spoken to a few over the years) would claim to be buying anything other than what you get at your school- a peaceful environment in which to learn, a motivated peer group and decent teachers. With digital resources and a sufficiency of textbooks, you need very little else to get a good result. And most classes at my older children's school have 24-25 pupils in them, so not especially small- even at A level they can be up to 20.

Again I do not see how these musings reflect in any way on your choices, my choices or anyone else's choices nor how they could be taken the wrong way. And that's why I'm baffled about your reaction.

OP posts:
Yellowstone · 29/08/2011 23:08

I'm not sure why. Read your posts.

Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 23:07

? Confused now.

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Yellowstone · 29/08/2011 23:04

duchesse correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe I've been anything other than civil to you on MN. Do you have a problem with grammars because I'm getting quite a negative vibe!

Of course 10 A's from St. James' would be hugely impressive but then, on the whole, 10 A's from our school with its larger class sizes and immensely tight budget is far more impressive than 10A's from yours. If one wants to make sweeping generalisations. Which I don't, unless pushed. When I'm pushed, especially when I'm pushed rather unfairly, I tend to fight my corner.

I see very good reasons for a DC finding the IB attractive. It doesn't need justification. I'd still try to dissuade mine but that's irrelevant. I'm not sure why having family in France is relevant either (I too have close family living in the South of France but mine never decamped to the college as a result) and A Levels are no barrier to studying in the US (in fact Harvard is making overtures to various state schools in the UK, keen to attract bright young state schoolers to the US).

I'm with thetasigmamum on where I'd send my kids if I had a choice. I know a lot of kids who've been to your DD2's school and a lot of kids who've been to your DD1's school and several who have decamped to the college. But I'm even happier with where they are now and a little puzzled as to why you seem unnecessarily chippy. You appear to have more choices than me, be glad of it.

thetasigmamum · 29/08/2011 19:53

duchesse yes :) but I don't live near Magd Street. And I do live round the corner from Queen Street and in the autumn and winter I drive down it most lunchtimes to get to the Quayside to do my run. So I have ample opportunity to see the HORDE and wave to those I know who are part of it (there are often a few). :) I wave out of devilment, cos obv it's embarrassing for them. But if I saw my own kids there that would be another story!

I only used 'posh' to avoid naming the school. I know lots of kids who are either current or past pupils, DD2s best friend goes there and a senior member of staff is the husband of one of my closest friends here. It's a lovely school and all the kids I know who go there are lovely. if we could afford to send all the kids there we probably would. But we can't. I wish your DD nothing but massive success with finding the right course for her, and I'll be very interested, if she does choose the IB at the college, to hear how she finds it.

Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 19:46

sigma- Grin "posh" school kids meanwhile are rampaging down Magd Street, albeit in blazers and chinos...

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Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 19:44

tbh Yellowstone if I were an admissions tutor I would be FAR more impressed by 10 As from a St James pupil than any number of A* from pupils from either of our three schools. I do think that genuinely clever and motivated people can do v well at GCSE despite their surroundings but they still need excellent teaching at A level to be well prepared for university. My best friend at university was extraordinarily lucky to be at an experimental but dreadful school in the 80s that attracted very bright teachers. They encouraged her and her friend to aim for the highest- my friend taught herself and studied independently through A level and got 4 As. Any A levels were virtually unheard of in that school let alone 4 As. But she had a lot of guidance and support from those teachers and she made it.

OP posts:
thetasigmamum · 29/08/2011 19:43

I think 10K school fees round here is rather more than an 'element' of income selection. Having said that, there is nothing wrong with leaving the private sector to go to a sixth form college if that is what you want to do for either financial or academic reasons. As I said upthread I've known one young woman who did this for the IB and others who chose to go to the college cos they thought it would be cool. There is no danger of misrepresentation as The college in question only does A levels, IB, and FE, it doesn't teach kids pre-sixth form.

Even taking all that into account though, I'd personally send my kids to the posh school rather than the college, if I was in a position to do so, purely because I wouldn't fancy spotting one of them in the HORDE rampaging down Queen street on the hour every hour and especially at lunchtime. I think that would be uncomfortable for all concerned. :)

Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 19:39

She wanted to be able to carry on with French as half our family lives there and she's hoping to becoming more fluent. She was attracted by the worldwide opportunities from having the IB rather than A levels, not least the potential of going for a term mid-course to another country and still being able to keep the same subjects at the same level (never a given). She likes the theory of knowledge and CAS components. She's quite an all-rounder and didn't feel ready to specialise just yet. The IB seems like an ideal solution for her. I just hope that the admissions people in her chosen universities feel the same, although to be fair she could equally study in the US with the IB.

OP posts:
Yellowstone · 29/08/2011 19:37

Btw duchesse our school gets no credit whatever for being state on the contextual data system. It scores exactly the same as top independents. And some academics deplore grammars equally as much as they do independents, so no advantage there!

Yellowstone · 29/08/2011 19:34

duchesse is right about my DC going to a selective school but to be fair it doesn't charge fees and does try very hard to deliver an outreach programme to attract those who wouldn't otherwise think of applying.

Anyhow, this isn't personal at all duchesse because I can see good reason for your DD thinking the IB an attractive option.

Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 19:24

ggt- Yellow's DCs' (state) school is more selective and gets better results than my children's selective private school. My children went there because they all failed to get into the other at 11+. Obviously my children's school also has an element of income selection as well, but there are a fair few children from really not well off families (eg single mums who "luckily" only have one child to pay fees for).

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goinggetstough · 29/08/2011 19:19

yellowstone sorry didn't mean to offend you. I guess I am just slightly sensitive as so many people (not yourself) often assume all private schools are like Eton and all state schools are sink schools which is not actually true in RL.

Yellowstone · 29/08/2011 19:10

goinggetstough I just asked about UCAS, not having had a DC move schools after GCSE, so haven't taken in the detail on that part of the form.

I happen to know duchesse's DD's GCSE old school well, also the college her DD is intending to join. The disparity is huge, so I just hoped that GCSE's were always judged against the school where they were taught.

Of course it would be unfair any other way.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 29/08/2011 17:06

yellowstone, loads of children move schools. They'll be used to it.

The reason I mentioned Kings and state schools is that they're probably very aware of the pressures non-selective schools have to run courses that their whole intake can manage, and the admissions tutor mentions wanting to get in touch with the teacher. It's about reasonable expectations - eg., if a child goes to a state school, wants to study classics, and hasn't done any Latin, that sounds normal. If a child goes to Eton, wants to study classics, and didn't bother with Latin A-Level, that sounds more as if the child didn't know what he wanted to do when he chose A Levels, which is a bit less impressive.

goinggetstough · 29/08/2011 16:39

Yellowstone why would private school kids who go state at sixth form get an unfair advantage as universities base their contextual data on the school they took their GCSEs and then their A levels. You do have to write down all the school you took exams at on your UCAS forms. This highlights whether they have gone to a successful school rather than whether it was state or private. What can muddy the waters are those who pay extra to be in a catchment area of a good state and then pay for extra tutoring..

Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 15:36

No, that's not how it read it at all! I read it as saying that she should pick the course SHE wants to do and see how she does at the end of it. Which is fine by us.

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Yellowstone · 29/08/2011 15:35

Cross-posted. That's good. Hope it all sorts itself out, not surprised she's been a bit :(

Yellowstone · 29/08/2011 15:33

This is not personal at all duchesse but I do hope that private school kids who go state for their Sixth form don't get an unfair advantage when it comes to applying contextual data to their GCSE's. That would be wrong. Misrepresention in effect. Mine have never moved schools so it hasn't arisen.

I might take a look at DS's UCAS form which he's filling in at the moment.

I read King's e-mail as gently nudging her in the dirction of A Levels, don't you?

Did you ask which college she should apply to!

Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 15:27

DS thinks that she'll be a state school pupil for the purposes of their private/state school stats but that as far as he remembers he had to list his school(s) back to primary school, so presumably individual establishments will know that she was at private until 16.

OP posts:
Original poster
duchesse · 29/08/2011 15:21

Dunno. Shall have to ask DS who's just been through the whole process.

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Yellowstone · 29/08/2011 15:00

On the UCAS form will your DD have to say that she was a private schooler up to GCSE? Or will universities assume she was a state schooler from the outset?