More of a WWYD actually- College now not offering 2 of the IB subjects that DD1 wanted to do

Christs:
Dear [duchesse],

Thank you for your email and your interest in Christ?s College.

1. The IB is regarded by UCAS and the University of Cambridge as fully equivalent to A Levels.

2. We make a few IB offers each year in medicine and the sciences, reflecting the proportion of applicants taking it. Our offers are usually 42 points overall, with 777 in the HL subjects. The vast majority of offer holders meet or exceed their offers, a similar situation to our A Level offer holders.

3. Doing the A Level as well is unusual, but would not have any appreciable effect on her application (provided her grades were appropriate).

4. It really depends on which courses your daughter would rather study and which she thinks she would be able to get the best results in.

I hope this is helpful.

Jesus:
Dear [duchesse]

Thank you for your email.

I will endeavour to answer your questions in order:

1.  We do not consider the IB science courses more or less rigorous than A-levels and have made offers to IB candidates on the sciences for a number of years.  The only disadvantage has been that not all schools have allowed students to take 3 sciences to Higher Level, we are one of the colleges that state we prefer to see three sciences to A2 level or equivalent.
   

2.  We have made offer to IB students for Natural Sciences and Medicine in the last few years our typical offer is 40 ? 42 points overall with scores of at least 7,7,6 at High Level or scores of 7 in all relevent science subjects.  
   

3.  With regard to a mix of  an A-level and the IB, we have seen this before when a candidate specifically wishes to take a certain subject that is not offered on the IB  (often Further Maths). To have a Maths A-level would certainly meet our requirements as we prefer to see three Higher level science subjects.  If your daughter was successful in gaining the Maths A-level at a high grade she should have convered the sufficient level of maths to achieve the Maths Studies as Standard level in the IB.
   

4.  As a college we would never advise an applicant or parents as to the course of action they should take, I am sure you can understand that we can only advise on the suitability of qualifications and the standard we are looking for.
   

I hope that this information has been of help to you.

Tit Hall:
Dear [Mr and Mrs duchesse]

Thank you for your email. Looking back at last year?s admissions round, we received 52 applications from students taking the IB (out of 503 applications in total). Of these, 18 applied for science subjects (Engineering, Medicine, Natural Sciences, Veterinary Medicine). Within the sciences, we made 2 offers to IB students ? one for Engineering and one for Natural Sciences (Physical). With such a small proportion of the total applications, it is very hard to draw firm conclusions about the success or otherwise of IB applications in the sciences. Many different factors are used in the assessment of candidates, including previous exam results, predicted grades, personal statement, school reference, admissions tests and performance at interview. A decision would not be based on whether a student had taken A Levels or the IB.

A Levels and the IB each have their advantages for a science student, depending on what the student is interested in. The IB allows for more breadth, which is good for the student who wishes to continue with non-science subjects alongside the sciences. The A Level allows for more specialisation, which is good for the student who wishes to only study sciences. The A Level also allows for greater flexibility in taking science and maths options. For example, within the structure of the IB, it is not possible to take all three science subjects (Biology, Chemistry, Physics). However, even A Level students do not always choose to take all three subjects.

Our typical offer for the IB is around 40-42 points overall, with 7,7,6 at Higher Level. The subject requirements for Medicine and Natural Sciences are slightly different, so it is probably clearer to talk about each in turn.

MEDICINE

For Medicine, it would not be necessary for [your dd] to take Maths at HL (or, indeed, at A2 Level). However, to meet pre-medical requirements she must be taking ?Mathematics? at SL (or at AS Level). ?Math Studies? would not be sufficient on its own.

NATURAL SCIENCES (PHYSICAL)

Because [your dd] has chosen Physics and Chemistry, I am assuming she would be applying for the Physical sciences. Here, Maths is of greater importance. We would probably expect a 7 in HL Maths. However, if the school does not offer HL Maths then taking A Level Mathematics alongside the IB Diploma would be a perfectly acceptable alternative. If she takes A Level Maths then the Mechanics modules provide a better preparation than other optional modules.

I hope that helps. Please ask again if anything is unclear.

Reply from Corpus, & first frankly negative response:
Dear [duchesse]

It is a pity that Exeter College is no longer able to offer Higher Level Mathematics, and certainly your daughter would be competing with IB applicants who were able to take 2 sciences and mathematics at Higher Level and A level applicants who were taking 3 sciences/2 sciences and mathematics to A2. From an admissions perspective, any school-imposed constraints on subject choice are taken into account when applicants are being assessed, but if a viable alternative is available, as seems to be the case at Exeter College, then we would usually encourage applicants to take advantage of such opportunities. Obviously, I am not in a position to comment on how studying this mix of qualifications would work in practice, and how it might affect your daughter's final results.

With regard to your question about offer/acceptance numbers, as a small College with a proportionately low number of applications from students taking the IB at schools in the UK, I'm afraid that I cannot produce any meaningful statistics for you.

and ellisbell- pen name of Emily Bronte, no?

Thank you both very much idrilis and ellis.

Idrilis, thank you very for your insider view on whether doing an A level on top of the full IB is achievable- this was one of our worries. I think you are right about Cambridge college grade expectations- the only one so far that looks realistic is the King's one. (38 & 7, 6, 6) They really seem to know what they are talking about.

ellis, I agree with you about yellowstone's DCs' school, and also because if DD went there she would have to go back to yr 11 with the 15 year olds since they do a 3-year 6th form there - I really can't see her going for that as an option!

It's not a question of independent vs state for A levels. It's a known vs unknown thing with little time to decide. We have not even ruled out A levels at the college in fact. It has a lot going for it as an option especially for DD who is able to work independently, and not least the fact finding the money for returning to her former school would be tough.

tbh Yellowstone the number of GCSEs is pretty much irrelevant when applying to Cambridge. It is pretty much a given that any applicant in normal circumstances will have some and at good grades and will have done well in them as applicants tend to be a self-selecting group of people who are good at exams.

The GCSEs are just one indicator of potential. They only have the GCSEs to go on at the interview stage as proof of exam success, but as you know they are interviewing on everything else that makes up that person, both academically and socially. What they are trying to pick is interesting people who have not yet peaked academically- ie are on an upward trend. You cannot coach anybody in that.

And from Newnham:
Dear [Mr and Mrs duchesse]

Unfortunately our Admissions Tutor, Dr XY, is away from Cambridge until 6 September, but I will try to answer your questions as far as possible, and perhaps Dr Y will add further information on her return.

We are receiving increasing numbers of applications from students taking the IB, as it is gaining in popularity in state as well as independent schools. We do not have any misgivings about the standard of the Higher Level as compared to A-levels, and we regularly make conditional offers to both arts and science applicants. Our standard offer based on the IB would be 40-42 points overall (including bonus points), with 776 at the Higher Level ? HL Chemistry would be essential for either Medicine or Natural Sciences (Biological).

Despite the steady increase in numbers, the number of IB applicants remains much lower than A-level applicants, so it is difficult to compare the success rate. However, it has been noticed across the University as a whole that there is a tendency for teachers to be over-optimistic when predicting IB grades.

We have in the past had applicants taking a combination of IB and A-levels, but it is fairly unusual. Dr Y might wish to comment on this ? and on your final question.

Thrid reply, Queen's:
Dear [Mr and Mrs duchesse],

My views are as follows:

1. Do you feel that the science courses in the IB are as rigorous as A levels?

Yes. We have had excellent students through the IB route in Sciences in recent years who have gone on to achieve top degrees

2. Have you made any offers to IB applying for medicine or the sciences in the last few years, and if so how high do they tend to be? Do candidates tend to meet their offers or not? Would you say that the proportion of IB candidates meeting their offers is similar or lower to A level candidates? Yes. We typically have 5 or so students a year with IB offers in Science subjects. We usually offer at 40 or 41 points in total with 776 in Higher Level subjects. We currently have 2 Medics who took the IB (we make offers to 11 Medical students each year). With relatively small numbers, it is difficult to generalise about whether IB students are more or less likely to meet offers than A-level candidates. It is the case that a significant number of our IB offerholders exceed the terms of their offer.

3. Does the college?s proposed solution of adding a maths A level to the mix seem odd to you? How would you as an admissions tutor view it on paper?

I can't comment on the college's preferred solution. As an Admissions Tutor, I see students offering a variety of combinations of qualifications. The beauty of our system is that we are able to look at individual circumstances in making decisions. I would have no problem in making an offer that involved, for example, an A in A-level maths plus 77 in HL Chemistry and Biology and an overall grade for the IB.

They've been doing it since 1993 mummy!

I agree with you, as I once taught in a new IB school, and it was not good for the first 2 years, and that's why I wouldn't go with KEVICC kindly suggested upthread by someone as they are in their 1st year.

Second admissions reply in, from Pembroke. A little more mixed, but still positive I think:
Dear [Mr and Mrs duchesse],

Thank you for your email. I am very happy to answer your questions as you make this difficult decision. Replies are interweaved with your questions below:

1. Do you feel that the science courses in the IB are as rigorous as A levels?

We are happy that the IB science courses are as rigorous as A Levels, though for the physical sciences (and what I mean by physical sciences is if she is a physicist, not a chemist going down the natural sciences physical route) we always like to see Further Maths. The IBO offers Further Maths at Standard Level, but where a school does not offer this (in my experience the majority don't), we would be keen, if possible, to see at least an AS Level in Further Maths to complement the candidate's IB Maths.

2. Have you made any offers to IB applying for medicine or the sciences in the last few years, and if so how high do they tend to be? Do candidates tend to meet their offers or not? Would you say that the proportion of IB candidates meeting their offers is similar or lower to A level candidates?

We have made offers to IB students in both the sciences and Medicine. Offers have tended to be in the range 40-2/45 overall with 776 or 777 at Higher Level. If a candidate is offering Standard Level Further Maths too, we would ask for a 7 in that for the physical natural sciences Tripos. The majority of candidates have met their offers. I'm afraid I have no hard data on how many IB candidates meet their offers compared with A Level candidates, but my experience at Pembroke in the last two years would suggest that the two are broadly comparable.

3. Does the college?s proposed solution of adding a maths A level to the mix seem odd to you? How would you as an admissions tutor view it on paper?

I have seen this before and it would pose no problem for us at all for the candidate to offer such a mixed economy. I would always say to any candidate offering more than the standard range, however (in this case the full IB Diploma plus an A Level, but in other cases it might be 5 A Levels, for example), that they need to be confident in themselves that they can not only satisfy our terms but perform outstandingly across these subjects. For physicists there is also the issue of Further Maths, which I would say is advisable at least to AS Level (not so important for Chemists, Biologists or Medics).

4. If you were in our position, what would you encourage your child to do?

This is difficult. It depends what [your DD] wants to do. In sum, though, the key points I would bear in mind are:

1. Can [your DD] not just handle but achieve the same very high results a combination of full IB Diploma and Maths A Level as she would doing three or four A Levels? This will mean getting strong IB predictions, and scoring, realistically, for Cambridge, an average of 90%+ across the Maths units she sits in Year 12. For physical natural sciences she will need Maths at Higher Level or A Level. For Medicine, the issue if she just does the IB and not the A Level too, is that she would have only two sciences/Maths at Higher Level. She could be admitted with these, but in practice 97% of our applicants offer three Maths/Sciences at Higher/A Level and have a higher success rate than those offering only two.

2. Is she considering reading Physics at university? If that is the case you should think about how Further Maths comes into the equation.