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Original poster

Ks3 levels - I understood what are the expected levels?

29 replies

LovelyDaffs · 17/07/2011 20:37

I got KS2 levels, so know how well my primary school dcs are doing and whilst I can obviously count up I'm not clear what the average levels are. Dd1's levels range from 4a on new subjects to 6b on others. She's at an academic school, but Im not clear on where she 'should' be at this stage (year7). Is there a table somewhere?

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freerangeeggs · 25/07/2011 15:02

Circular, I'm an English teacher. It is a very inconsistent, subjective and confusing system. I have parents on the phone all the time who are asking the same questions as you.

Focus on whether your daughter is making progress, rather than what level she is sitting at. That's all that really matters.

circular · 25/07/2011 07:47

This is genuine confusion on what appears to be a very inconsistent system.
With different meanings being given to levels even between the "experts" it is no wonder many are confused in KS3.

Just because a parent takes an interest and wants to know more does not mean they want to be an expert.

I always have and always will question experts. Most of the time the experts will get it right. But on occasions when I have needed to step in it has always done more good than harm. And not just with the teaching profession.

TheMonster · 24/07/2011 10:54

Yes, but it is not impossible.
You clearly want to be the expert so there is little point in trying to reason with you.

circular · 24/07/2011 10:49

BodyOfEeyore - I understand there is movement later on in deciding the tiers at DDs school, but they DO move the sets around at the start of yr10. So if in a set that is not working to the level of the higher papers, it is difficult to make the transition later.

Magenta - Yes, but not happy with the tutor. Not in touch with the current syllabus, too much emphasis on literature when DDs real problems are with creative writing. Have something else in place for September though.

magentadreamer · 23/07/2011 09:33

Circular, they don't ask for a level 6 for higher paper at my DD's school and of the two other local schools I know about they don't either. Have you had any luck in finding a tutor for your DD?

TheMonster · 22/07/2011 19:22

I've never known a school want a level 6 for higher tier exclusively.
The decision about which paper a pupil sits isn't made at the end of year 9 and then set in stone.

circular · 22/07/2011 08:53

So WHY (and this is something a teacher - not from DDs school - told me) are KS3 levels used to decide which papers they sit? Generally, below a level 6 would mean Foundation tier.

TheMonster · 21/07/2011 20:21

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
The criteria used to judge GCSE English is hugely different to the criteria used for KS3 levels.

circular · 21/07/2011 12:53
TheMonster · 20/07/2011 20:20

I'm an English teacher. It is fine to be a 5a/6c at the end of KS3. I only wish more children were!

Original poster
LovelyDaffs · 20/07/2011 09:15

I largely agree with you Cricketball, but I'm keeping an eye of it and I'm satisfied at the moment that she's not being overly pressurised. Our attitude has always been the age old 'just work to the best of your ability'. I don't have a degree and had a very good career and DH's degree is arts based and from an old Poly. If we steer our dcs in any way it's more towards creativity than academia, but if she could go to Oxbridge and still wants to in a few years then obviously we'll support her.

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circular · 20/07/2011 08:41

We have been told this SO many times now from DD1s teachers. Especially in English where they are trying to convince us it is 'fine' to be a level 5a/6c at the end of Yr9.

Yet on the other hand, we hear the 2 full levels per key stage bit.

I have giiven up trying to understand it (for now*) and so glad there are no more levels from Yr10.

*Also have DD2 in yr3, so may go round the same circles again when she hits KS3.

cricketballs · 19/07/2011 23:27

to be honest lovelydaffs I would not be comfortable if my DC were in an enviroment that was that competitive that they were thinking about oxbridge at year 7 learning should be about enjoyment and wonder not just about uni places. what does your DD really think?

Original poster
LovelyDaffs · 19/07/2011 20:53

Cricket balls she got it from school/friends/am not really sure I didn't even know that she knew about Oxbridge when she first mentioned it. I did say it's a very academic school and her group of friends are competitive. Not sure if that's a good thing tbh, but I did have a thread about it a while ago.

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cricketballs · 19/07/2011 20:01

I'm sorry LovelyDaffs but your statement of not being overly pushy does not sit with me in the same paragraph of 'she's very keen to go to cambridge' about a year 7 child; where did she get the idea about cambridge from if not from you?

Why not let her enjoy school and learning at this age rather than thinking about uni?

TheMonster · 19/07/2011 19:22

A KS2 level 5 is very different to a KS3 level 5.

Original poster
LovelyDaffs · 19/07/2011 19:20

Premature I agree, just try telling Miss uber competitive Grin

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GrimmaTheNome · 19/07/2011 13:57

I reckon she's on track to do pretty well. Smile Whether oxbridge grade, premature to guess.

Original poster
LovelyDaffs · 19/07/2011 09:43

That's interesting cricket balls, I did notice some differences at the beginning of term between her ks3 assessments and Ks2sats.

I'm not overly concerned or overly pushy, but I'd like to be able to have some idea of where she sits in terms of ability. She's still very keen to go to Cambridge I posted about it a few weeks ago, I know she's only year 7 but it'd be useful to see if she's on track for good gcse's.

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GrimmaTheNome · 18/07/2011 23:30

If your DD is at an 'academic' school then the 'average' of level 5 at end of KS3 isn't really relevant to her. 4 for new subjects, 6s for others at this stage is about where she probably should be if she acheived level 5 SATs at KS2.

My DDs 'academic' school gives target levels for end of KS3 and these tend to be in the range 6/7, or 8 for maths/science

cricketballs · 18/07/2011 23:13

the other thing to think about is that KS2 level 5;s are not anywhere close to what is required at KS3 for a level 5; also teacher assessments etc.

For instance in my subject there is no test and therefore rely on teacher assessments at KS2. For a child to achieve a level 5 at KS2 is skill based; at secondary it depends more on the understanding and application rather than the skills

but to answer your questions the national average is a level 4 at KS2 and a level 5 at KS3

freerangeeggs · 18/07/2011 21:19

Lots of children finish KS3 with level 4s too. If they've achieved level 5 at KS2 then their target will be higher and a level 5 will be a inidcator that intervention is needed.

Don't put too much stock in expected levels. All children are different - I know that's a bit of a cliche but I don't think the general public realise how wide the range of ability is in schools.

Original poster
LovelyDaffs · 18/07/2011 16:36

It does seem a bit low when you think that plenty of children finish KS2 with 5's.

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titchy · 18/07/2011 13:16

Fortunately not in typing Blush

titchy · 18/07/2011 13:16

Here:
Diretc Gov

say that at end KS3 children ar expected to reach Level 5....