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Original poster

Appealing against Permanent Exclusion

135 replies

McTemp · 07/07/2011 15:16

Would love to pick some brains out there! A friend of mine has a daughter in Year 8 who has just been permanently excluded, and this exclusion has been upheld by the Governing body. Parents want to appeal this decision.

The reason given for the exclusion was "persistent distruptive behaviour", and they outlined a number of examples of this.

While parent doesn't dispute most of these took place, it is clear that this is a very high achieving school, and her daughter struggles academically (School Action Plus for dyslexia), and I think the school are keen to get rid of the child, as her grades affect their results.

The child in question is also deaf in one ear, and parents would like to appeal because they don't believe their daughters disabilities have been taken into account. The decision letter states:

"staff received training how to deal with deafness on an annual basis, but accepted that perhaps not all teachers were aware of X's hearing loss."

Parents believe that the child's misbehaviour in class arose because of her disability as it was likely that she couldn?t hear instructions given to her and was placed in the back of the class when she should have been at the front.

Has anyone got advice about what the exclusion appeal process is like, and what sort of things parents might need to prove?

OP posts:

hangon · 25/09/2011 17:29

Yes redglow you are right, at least your views were constructive major.

I was thinking of the more spiteful ones like maypoles just the sort of parent I dread meeting in the real world.

mungogerry · 25/09/2011 07:59

Well done McTemp. Best outcome for all!

Marjoriew · 25/09/2011 06:54

Well, I would like to say I'm sorry for my postings here and for judging this girl prematurely.
I hope she goes on to do well at her new school and I'm pleased that someone has stood up for her.

sunshinenanny · 24/09/2011 22:35

Congratulations McTemp, really pleased for this girl and a lesson to some of the previous posters on this thread, not to make judgements before all the facts are heard. Children do get wrongly singled out for exclusion.

redglow · 23/09/2011 19:16

Oh come on hangon do you really think that those types would admit to be proved wrong.

MuswellHeeled · 23/09/2011 07:20

Just read this whole thread. McTemp - I take my hat off to you.
Very glad this girl can now move forward positively.
I would like to say something snooty about the grammar and spelling in Maypole's ugly posts...but I would never do that...

hangon · 22/09/2011 23:41

Glad it has worked out for this girl. Very interesting all the negative people have not come back to this post to say well done.

admission · 20/09/2011 20:30

Just one minor point - if the parents go to law it will be a civil case which means it will be decided on the balance of probabilities. "Beyond reasonable doubt" only applies to criminal cases.

prh Oh how interesting, because I was told that by somebody in the DfE. Just goes to show you can't rely on anybody!

prh47bridge · 20/09/2011 17:37

Thanks for that Admission. I've only seen the Bill which doesn't give any details beyond what I posted earlier. Interestingly the bit about quashing the governors' decision talks about the review panel making this decision "in the light of the principles applicable on an application for judicial review". However, it does not seem to prevent parents (or GBs) applying for judicial review.

Just one minor point - if the parents go to law it will be a civil case which means it will be decided on the balance of probabilities. "Beyond reasonable doubt" only applies to criminal cases.

I shall be interested to see the draft code when it finally appears.

By the way, if anyone else is interested the relevant part of the Bill can be read here.

admission · 20/09/2011 13:04

PRH,
As far as i am aware the draft is still bouncing around the DfE, while they try and decide exactly what they want the code to say. Rumour has it that the code will be out next month, but i am not holding my breath.
If it, as expected, comes out as you have described it, then I would echo your concerns. Where there is a weak governing body and a strong (overpowering) head the governing body will not potentially accept the recommendation of the IAP and I am not sure who has the final say. My guess would be that this will be the law courts.
If an IAP recommends something and the Gb then does not accept, there will clearly be parents who will then go to law over it. That then brings up all sorts of issues, not the least of which is presumably that the burden of proof changes from one of the probability that the pupils did what was alleged to one of beyond reasonable doubt (the legal standard). I might also add here that having talked to a few education lawyers they all think that both the exclusion and admission code changes will be "good" for business, which can only be bad for schools.
Another issue that has not been sorted out is what happens if the decision goes back to the governing body. Is that a new panel of 3 governors or the same three governors? If it is a new panel then there is a real risk that they will not have adequate training and therefore another problematic decision being made and a real risk that schools with small governing bodies will actually run out of appropriate governors to be on the committee.
It is ironic that all the teaching unions, head teacher unions, local authority associations and the National Governors Association said leave this alone, but the government had to tinker and "give the final say" to the head, which it has never been and never will be, as it is the governor appeal committee.

Jinx1906 · 20/09/2011 12:49

McTemp,

Was wondering how the appeal was going, thanks for posting.

Really pleased all seems to have worked out in the end for the girl involved and that a school has been found that can help her. Hope she settles in well.

It is nice to see some good news amongst all the doom and gloom.

prh47bridge · 20/09/2011 10:26

admission - I would be interested to know what you think of the changes. My immediate reaction is that it could lead to a game of ping pong where the governors exclude a pupil, the review panel quashes the decision, the governors reconsider and exclude again, the review panel quashes the new decision and so on. I would hope that most governors would take on board the review panel's decision and act accordingly but I have come across schools with governors who could be obstructive in this kind of situation.

McTemp - Should have said in my last post that I'm glad it went well. I am pleased that this girl now doesn't have a permanent exclusion on her record and that she is doing well in the PRU. I hope this does have a happy ending for her.

prh47bridge · 20/09/2011 01:45

Having read the Education Bill that is currently going through parliament, my understanding is that IAPs are being replaced by review panels with different powers. A review panel can uphold the decision of the responsible body (the governors for most schools), recommend that the responsible body reconsiders the case or, if it considers that the responsibly body's decision was flawed, quash the decision and order them to reconsider the case. If the panel decides to quash the responsible body's decision it will, in some circumstances, be able to order a change to the school's budget. The panel will also have other powers. For example, the accompanying guidance suggests they may have the power to direct what is put on the pupil's record. However, unlike current appeal panels, the review panel will not be able to order the school to reinstate the pupil.

Is there a draft of the new code available? I haven't seen it yet.

admission · 19/09/2011 21:18

Glad to hear that all went well.
As redglow says, not that many are successful, which is not an indication that the IAPs side with the school but that most of the time the school / head do get it right. Unfortunately heads are humans like everybody else and sometime they do get it wrong, which is exactly what an IAP is there for.
It is incredibly worrying that shortly, if Mr Gove gets his way, IAPs will not have the power to overturn and the new exclusion code will be putting heads in a position where they may more or less do what they want with pupils, who do not fit in their school.

redglow · 19/09/2011 20:55

well done to you Mctemp they have proved a point. Its very unusual for this to happen so well done.

Hope the girl does really well and thanks for telling us the ending.

Original poster

McTemp · 19/09/2011 15:16

Thank you so much for all your help and advice - the exclusion was not upheld by the IAP (yay!), and acknowledged the school had made some serious errors.

The girl was not reinstated at the school, however, as dad agreed at the panel that a fresh start would be best for the girl, and acknowledged how much the girl's grades and behaviour had improved since she had been taken out of the school and put into the PRU. Not entirely sure what provisions will be made for the girl now as she is no longer an excluded pupil, but the LA are being very accomodating, so I have a feeling its all going to be a happy ending.

A serious thanks to those of you who gave help and advice - in the submission I made on behalf of the parents, I copied (plagarised?! )many of your words exactly, and it obviously had the right effect on the panel. Thank you so much.

OP posts:

admission · 13/09/2011 23:08

If you have not got a good case, make sure it is a long one to try and bamboozle every one! 300 pages is certainly a long one, but hopefully the IAP will see through the attempt to blind them with data and be able to get to the core issues.

redglow · 13/09/2011 22:21

I was wondering how you got on. Can she not stay at the PRU.?

Hope they win the appeal.

Original poster

McTemp · 13/09/2011 21:35

UPDATE. Appeal to be heard this week - the school deferred it with parents consent as the Head was away and would not have been able to be present, and the school said that without the Head there the IAP Panel would have deferred it anyway.

The girl is currently in the PRU and flourishing. From my 'inside knowledge' (that I can't declare to the parents/panel without outing myself), the school that the girl is going to be moved to is a Special school now (not the all girls school that was previosly suggested) and the girl is currently undergoing the process for a statement (parents know a statement is being 'considered' - they don't know (like I do) that the statement is a definite, and that so is the special school if their appeal is unsuccessful).

IMO, the fact she is being statemented now shows the school was negligent. This should have happened whilst she was at the school, and a permanent exclusion could have been averted. I have read the whole file (300+ pages long!) that the school has prepared for the IAP, and I still stick by my initial asertion that they have been negligent in their duty of care towards her.

I actually think the special school would be better for her, but I still want the Panel to still acknowledge the school was wrong in excluding.

OP posts:

RoadArt · 03/08/2011 00:37

I totally agree that many parents do not accept that their children are badly behaved at school.

Some kids are absolutely horrendous. However, when you see how these kids behave around their parents, the parents dont see it as a problem or that it is normal behaviour

triskaidekaphile · 02/08/2011 23:30

I totally agree it would be appalling, prh47bridge. Sadly it would not surprise me, however, particularly if the boy's background is more of a "fit" with a so called aspirational school or if he has pushy demanding parents who refuse to acknowledge that he did something very wrong which triggered the girl's response. I feel very sorry for this girl, if all the reports from McTemp are accurate.

prh47bridge · 02/08/2011 22:11

Having spent a lot of time in schools observing classes for reasons I won't go into here (other than to say I don't work for Ofsted), I think there is a bit of both. Some pupils are disruptive no matter what the teacher does. However, some teachers are much better at controlling disruptive pupils than others. And I have come across some teachers who were completely incapable of controlling any class.

The extent to which it can be down to individual teachers was really driven home when I followed one class through an inner city comprehensive for a day. In one lesson with a very talented, inspirational teacher they were very well behaved and there was no disruption at all. In the next with a teacher who had clearly given up all attempts to control them the entire class completely ignored the teacher. The teacher simply delivered the lesson, ignoring everything that was going on in the class but I doubt any of the pupils heard a single word that was said.

And to add to cornsilksy's point:

roughly 4 in 10,000 children without SEN get permanently excluded
that rises to 33 in 10,000 children with a statement of SEN
for children with SEN but no statement it rises to 38 in 10,000

SEN children are also more likely to be subjected to fixed term exclusions (which are legal) and informal or unofficial exclusions (which are illegal even if the parents agree to them). From this the only possible conclusion I can see is that either children with SEN are far worse behaved than their peers or schools are not very good at handling such children.

And in response to triskaidekaphile, if that is the case it is appalling. The school has already disciplined the girl for the incident. They should not now discipline her further because the parents of the other child kick up a stink. Even if the other child was completely innocent that would be wrong. Given that the other child seems to be guilty of sexual harrassment which the school has chosen to ignore, excluding this girl on that basis would be seriously adding insult to injury.

triskaidekaphile · 02/08/2011 21:57

Do you think broken nose boy's parents kicked up a stink and the school is reacting to that? Just a thought.

cornsilksy · 02/08/2011 21:03

roadart - how does that observation fit with the lamb enquiry's evidence that children with SEN are 8 times more likely to be excluded than children without SEN? Often these children do have undiagnosed SEN.

RoadArt · 02/08/2011 20:42

Hi Hangon.

I have worked in classes where just one child can be extremely disruptive, violent and a danger to other children. I am now helping in a class where there are several children who are extremely disruptive to the extent that the learning for all the other kids just isnt happening. (well it is, but they are not getting the full focus they need.)

I agree that the style of teaching has to be changed for these minority, but the teacher has to still get through the curriculum and doesnt have time to change her ways to suit these disruptive children. I have observed her trying all sorts of differnet methods to engage them, but nothing works. THey dont have learning difficulties as such, but I believe they were on the lower levels academically, but not low enough to have warrantied one-to-one attention, so their self-esteem is very low, they believe they cant do the work so wont try. As they have got older, this situation has escalated so badly they just dont/wont co-operate in class, with anything.

The school have tried every kind of discipline they can, but have a policy of every child matters so dont do exclusion. They work on the basis that they must work to draw the child back in to be educated. It does work for some, but not for others.

I know that the teachers do work extremely hard to help these children and do not accept it is bad teaching. The children are not controlled at home and reflect this behaviour in school. When a child moves from teacher to teacher and still behaves the same way, then it proves it is not the teacher's fault.

As a parent I get frustrated to see the amount of time that is wasted because of these disruptive children. I see other children get aggrevated that they cant get on with what they should be doing or that they dont get the teacher's attention. I see the other children get upset that they dont get rewarded for being good, but these "naughty" children get rewards all the time.

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