Private schools - what are the long term benefits?

I'm with alice.

And, I am fascinated to read the different priorities people seem to have for their children...and also, as often on MN, amazed at the generalizations that get bandied about.

It depends on which schools, and perhaps even more on the parents, and equally important - on the child. And, I suppose, on the aspirations you have for your children.

I was educated (in Oxford, privately) with children of academics, ne'er do wells, ambassadors, alcoholic music biz people, RAF officers, nurses, artists, doctors, lawyers and housewives. Some in my class flunked their A-levels, a few went on to high flying occupations, the majority simply did 'ok'.

Nearly all my friends, at Secondary level, male and female, went to private schools - some very famous, some not. Some of them ended up dead from drug addiction, a few ended up with high ranking jobs, most did 'ok'.

My daughters are being educated (in London, state primary) with the children of doctors, engineers, tree surgeons, teachers, nurses, artists, authors, students, body builders, housing officers, and SAHMs. I have a feeling they will pan out much the same as the kids I went to school with - some messed up, some flying high, most 'ok'.

Their occupations are a lot more varied - which I personally like - and the parents are definitely no less supportive of their children, no less emotionally/mentally healthy, and no less inspiring than the families of the children I went to school with.

Why do people assume that if one is a doctor or Lawyer one does not send ones children to state school. I am a lawyer and my dh is an accountant and we choose to send our dc's to state school. We are not in the minority and we do not live in a so called 'middle class' area.

Everyone goes to school, it's the 'day job'. You have to actively opt out of the system to not go. So doing well at school (getting your A and A* grades) is no biggie, unfortunately.
Not everyone goes to University. It is an opportunity that is only available to a certain number of people.
Work experience shows that you can get off your backside and do things, especially if it is not school-organised WE. Therefore on your personal statement you mention WE because it shows (a) you are proactive and (b) you make the most of your opportunities.

It is shorthand for (a) I am motivated enough to apply to Uni so you ought to give me a place because (b) I will use the experience better than the next person well.

The quality of the WE is almost irrelevant (medical tourism, top London hospital or wiping bottoms), it is what you get out of it that is important.

Yellowstone: would your school sanction using Wednesday afternoons for getting caring experience? (it's what DD did instead of sport)

Obviously nobody does much work experience before the age of 16, and I am not meaning my year 8 daughter should be doing anything yet. However, a motivated 16 year old can do a great deal of use in a care home, even with modern health and safety restrictions: talk to the residents, for example. My daughters (the older is 16, but has no interest in medicine) have been in and out of my dad's care home for the last five years and therefore have seen a host of elderly people come and go, with all manner of physical and mental infirmities, and have got used to chatting with the deaf, those with dementia, etc. It's taught them an awful lot about humanity. You don't have to have training to interact with elderly people in a helpful way. The staff don't have time to sit and talk to the residents as much as they might, or sit with each of them and encourage them to drink a cup of tea.
I would entirely queue up to allow my daughter to empty bedpans if it would a) be of use and b) help her realise what caring for a dependent patient involves. Why not? Why is that beneath my child? When I worked in the vet's in the sixth form, before health and safety, we used to reuse hypodermic needles, and one of my jobs was to wash them and test them for sharpness by stroking them along my finger - a few hundred at a time, every Saturday. We've moved on from that, thankfully, but I am certain I am far more appreciative of the nurses I work with having done my time washing floors and cleaning surgical instruments. It's the sort of experience you only really get the most from by doing it regularly over a long period. How can a twenty minute interview possibly establish who is and isn't compassionate and practical? Nobody's going to sit in an interview and say they don't care about the elderly or disabled, are they?
Also, for those of us who have taken the private school route, regular contact with something like a care home is a good way to move outside one's own little cozy bubble - which is, to my mind, one of the less desirable facets of a private education (to return to the original post which I accidently hijacked!)

Yellowstone, could your DS drop into a local care home after school one day each week? Someone I know in my older DD's year does that at Dad's care home, and it seems to be working well. And I am sure that a real job will count in your DS's favour, too!

I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't have a good understanding on what the job involves of course they should but quite how they prove that whilst being useful is the tricky part I guess.

I think that gaining experience in a care home would be a complete waste of time due to the fact that they are at that stage nothing more than by standers, neither use or ornament. I would be far from happy about having your year 8 attempting to handle my aged parent, or any other would be doctor.
Neither would I be queuing up to allow my child to be used as unpaid labour emptying bedpans which is realistically all they could offer.
Un-compassionate medicine students should be weeded out at interview.

I agree about the value of care home experience too alice. The Oxford website says in terms that they fully understand that glitzy high-profile medical experience is hard to come by for a lot of students and they specifically suggest care home experience instead.

DS1 has twelve A's at GCSE, one A at A2 and is predicted another four next year so there are no issues on the academic front as far as anyone can see. But I'm worried about his lack of care home experience: he's done one week only, not because he dismisses its value but because he works one day a weekend to earn money and in the holidays too, which seriously limits his time. I'm genuinely concerned that he seems to fall short on the care home front.

That having been said, if he had the requisite connections to land a week at a top London hospital (which he emphatically does not), I think my advice would be to dumb it down and to not name names because I do think it might hinder as much as help.

Well said alice

I have a year 8 daughter in a private school, who currently wants to read medicine, who may well get four As at A level - like every other pupil in her school who wants to read medicine, of which there are many. I also have a father with dementia who's been in a care home for five years, and I absolutely, 100% think that if my DD does eventually apply for medicine, her chances of getting in should be increased more by work experience in a care home than some lavish medical tourism trip overseas, which seems to be the up and coming thing for medicine applicants. All the medicine applicants are bright. Choosing bright applicants who will make compassionate and realistic doctors seems paramount to me, and getting them to do something like work in a care home is an excellent way of sorting the sheep from the goats. The residents in care homes are people, Ishani, and a doctor's Hippocratic oath is to help people. Don't you think that finding out what it's like to work with dependent and needy people would be a valuable test of someone's suitability to be a doctor?
It's been like that for veterinary applicants for years - they won't even look at you without weeks of practical work experience, whatever sort of school you come from. It was like that when I got into vet school 30 odd years ago, and the work experience I did in the sixth form was invaluable.
Sorry for the derailment, but I don't think it's right to make such negative comments about care homes. I know a lot of consultants who could learn something from a couple of weeks in a care home, on the coal face of care, as it were.

There has to be a balance doesn't there, but i know people who were turned down from medicine with 4 A's and told to go and work in an old peoples home to gain "experience" of what being abused and wiping shit up ? Ridiculous.

I'm currently on DC4 with UCAS and very happy to help. But the main thing thankfully seems to be merit. Beware making too much of high profile work experience placements on the PS, really!

My worry is without a good state or private education if you give somebody £100,000 it could be lost through divorce or the business could fail through no fault of their own, I always figure that the one thing that can never be taken off them is their qualifications (assuming they don't cheat or anything like that).

No uni applications are a way off for us, if we ever get there at all. Having said that I shall be lapping up all the advice I can from those who've been there and got the tshirt either themselves or via their older DC's and there's a hell of a lot to learn that I wouldn't have even considered has changed from the 90's when DH and I filled out our UCAS/PCAS forms.

"I still think on the whole, the money could have been better spent or invested for DS if he wants to go to Uni or start a business, or anything else young people want to do but can't afford!"

This is a really interesting point of view. It's the only point of view in any private/state debate that has actually given me pause EVER.

100,000 would be very nicely invested in a business. Or a house. But then, they are getting a sodding good education.

Damn you.

It just sounds to me that you haven't hit the real world of uni apps yet!

I think it's dangerous to consider this an investment in your child. It can be very damaging if said child then fails to perform, or decides to become an artist or a social worker etc. In fact I think I read a thread about a parent disappointed because her privately educated child became a teacher.

The best school will educate them superbly and make them happy and confident enough to make their own choices with maturity and awareness. That's what you need.

What makes you say that ?

How old are your kids Ishani? I'm guessing quite young.

Er no

You're having a joke, Ishani, right?

Spot on Menagerie, when my children were at state school the other children's parents were nurses, estate agents, no doctors or lawyers, at private they are mixing with consultants children and the nurses are at the top of their pay scale, prescribing and married to consultants. I have benefited enormously myself with career advice, character references etc already from other parents and the children aren't out of prep yet. I can see the advantages to asking so and so's mum for work experience, connections, introductions etc and that just didn't seem available at the local C of E primary, I don't believe for a moment I've suddenly become better at networking more that the information flows more freely at private schools because that's how it works.

Propatara It doesnt mean the more expensive school is the better one. How snobby.

Menagerie - but it's not like that anymore or for everyone - plenty of lawyers, doctors, etc send their children to state schools (ok not sink ones, but good ones), I am surrounded by them!

The best private day schools round here - getting many to Oxbridge and excellent exam/sport/music charge around £9-10 thousand a year.

I was chatting about indie v state schools with a colleague and she said one important advantage (she is pro private from reception on) is that they will mix with people who are in a position to help them get on later in life. The parents of friends they make in private schools will be, say, lawyers who will take on pupils they know etc. I was absolutely shocked when she said this - so snobbish - then realised she was just being more honest than most. It is a benefit, if your child is likely to go into one of the traditional professions.

I knew a very bright working class boy who was an excellent law student and couldn't get a pupilage for two years. In the end a brilliant lawyer took him on, not on the strength of his ability but because he started going out with a very nicely brought up gel who moved in the lawyer's son's circle. Like it or not, this is an important advantage.

Parental support can only go so far unless you intend to pack in the whole syllabus between the hours of home time and bedtime with extra help at weekends, what a fun life that sounds for everyone.