Schools hot on 'medicine' as a career choice

Thats one newspaper article from 2000 and from statistics put forward by that professions own bodies. You can google almost any above average suicide rate profession and find a newspaper article on it. I've also heard Vets and Dentists mentioned in the past, as well as Farmers. A lot probably has to do with the fact when they are very down they have access to medicines to complete the process. A lot of farming suicides involve guns, as they have access to them.

Kez100 - No doctors and nurses have the highest suicide rate

I wouldn't think about it in those terms, really. If he is serious (and I speak as someone who changed career plans about 5 times during high school) then he needs a school which will get him his results at GCSE and A level. He'll also need suitable work experience later on (some schools have better links than others - I spent 2 weeks in the operating theatres in my local hospital, I know people from other schools who were sent to the local supermarket/factories to sit it out!)

Then there's extracurricular activities - go for a school with plenty of choice, it doesn't matter so much what they are as long as he does something, so he should play to his strengths be they music, drama, sports, scouts, DofE, cadets, whatever (a range is good too - dabbled with all the above myself) They like voluntary work too, once he's older shifts in a nursing home etc always go down well, and are increasingly expected! WRVS may take him earlier (it's mainly but not exclusively little old ladies who help running shops, cafes and libraries in hospitals, changing flower-water and generally being GoodEggs)

The only thing I'd say about academics is to try for separate sciences at GCSE, as it makes A Level easier. Look at prospectuses before choosing A-level options, as some have different requirements. All want chemistry, but some maths and some biology, so check out his favoured ones at that stage.

On a practical note, medicine is a long course as an undergraduate, and longer learning after that; he needs to understand that the Daily Wail headline salaries are effectively made up (so he'll be paying back loans for years - I missed the start of fees but due to finish paying next year after 8!), that there's a lot of moving around the country especially to start with after graduation, and exams continue way into his thirties. And I still work 100 hour weeks on occasion, even if not routinely any more!

If he's still up for it - GREAT! I can't imagine doing anything else, and I look forward to working with him in about 15 years time!

They say about high employment rates of doctors but, to be honest, they hit the Hugh hurdle much earlier than most professions - medical school. Most professions there aren't that many hurdles until you come to find a job and then you compete. Doctors compete at medical school entry which seems to lead to less of them competing for jobs. I'm not an expert but that certainly seems the case as medical school entry seems very hard and limited in number.

the schools in this country that send most pupils to medicine are likely to be either private or grammar schools as they have more of the pupils who achieve the grades necessary.

In general state schools are not as good at preparing pupils for the more demanding interviews, if you look at one of the league tables that shows how many pupils go to Oxbridge then you'll see state schools don't generally have the sort of percentages a private school would have for the same levels of ability. The children from state schools who do succeed are likely to be those whose parents educate themselves in what is required and see that their children are prepared.

There is a lot of good advice on mumsnet and elsewhere about how to prepare a child to apply to medical school. I haven't read this book personally but it might be worth seeing if your local library have it. www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/0955132541

Work (including voluntary) experience is key - both for a child to decide if medicine is really for them and to convince interviewers of that. This doesn't have to be glamorous. Interviewers may be more impressed by a child who has worked in a nursing home or hospice, especially if this was for a sustained period, as that shows greater understanding and commitment.

Although it's not as easy for British doctors to work abroad as it used to be I don't think any doctor need fear unemployment if prepared to travel.

I think kez is right.
Certainly stress of making a farm pay has caused the divorce of friends of mine

I would defiantly confirm the you really have to be dedicated. It took my DSIL until she was 30+ to find an area of medicine she was happy with. She gave been a doctor totally for a bit. I suspect she became a doctor to please her dad and to prove that she DH and DMIL were right to make him let her go to state 6 th form.

No way. Farming is reknowned for being the highest suicide rate.

i am always surprised a how many parents want their children to work in the profession which has the highest rate of suicide, divorce and alcoholism, namely medicine.

Theas18 why did it make you sad that a group of friends wanted to set up in practice together? This is not unheard of. Would you rather the partners in a practice clashed?

Good luck for your viva

Neither of my children want to be doctors

The children whose fathers are doctors seem to be OK following in footsteps though

peteneras - I am a hospital consultant and have two children 10 and 3.
Am still doing exams and work long hours.
If my DCs want to do medicine - I will make sure that they are 100% committed and will be able to hack it for the next 15 years of exams/assessments and working long hours and moving from one part of the country to another and never settle down before you are well into late 30s or 40s.
If you need just money -there are other career you can choose where you can earn reasonable amount of money and earn it quickly and not wait for years.
May be the children see what their parents have to do - My sister/brother refused to do medicine after seeing my work(they are 10 years younger than me)- For example today is my day off and my research VIVA tomorrow but went to work to make sure everything was OK. So maybe the children see the lifestyle.
Am meant to be working and not MNing

I can see no reason not to encourage it. Its academically demanding across the board, plus needs social skills and extra curricular too. Even if they never end up being a medic (the realisation will probably happen slowly as they get older) they have focussed on a very well rounded education! My son wants to be a Games Designer (I think that is equivilent of medicine as a dream for the slightly less able boy) and I've told him thats great head for the sciences, especially Physics, and Maths. Whether he gets there or not, the academic choices needed are rigourous and very useful indeed.

I think you need to have a child with a strong academic aptitude and work ethic first of all. Certainly at GCSE most hopefuls are straight A/A* material.

Both my kids who are still at school (esp DS) have almost had to fight against the trend in order not to do medicine at a very academic school with a very ethnically mixed population. It is the norm to want to be a doctor lawyer or dentist (and for the girls to go to the local uni and plan to set up in practice with their female friends- it made me sad to see this in DD1s leavers year book TBH).

Not sure I'd recommend it now anyway as a profession TBH....

You?d know, each time I look at the title of this thread it brings a scary smile to my face.

No, I don?t mean any disrespect to the OP or indeed anyone who had responded to the thread ? far from it!

I smile because out of a dozen or so boys in my DS?s peer group in school, literally half of them have at least one parent and in a couple of cases, both parents, who are actually medical doctors ranging in specialty from a pediatrician to a top surgeon.

I smile or should I say, laugh (?) at myself, because none of these medics? DC went on to pursue medicine at university. For that matter, none of DS?s peer group proceeded to do medicine.

Now, seriously, do they know something that I don?t?

More worryingly, do DS?s peers know something that he doesn?t?

It is racist to assume that children of immigrant families only want to be doctors because they have had their lives mapped out for them by pushy parents. This is an outrageous thought which tries to give less ambitious children/families the higher moral ground.
I have come across parents who want their children to be doctors who have absolutely no idea what that entails. I don't think that matters a jot, except to be positive because the parents will be supporting the child through what is necessary.
Years ago it used to be thought an advantage to have someone in medicine in the family because they would be aware of the commitment needed.
This is no longer so as medicine is now more family friendly. But it is important for the student and family to talk to as many doctors/medical students as possible to get a realistic picture. The need for honesty and integrity, and brain also goes without saying.
Also, all should be aware that a UK medical degree is no longer a meal ticket for life. Competition for jobs increases after qualification and are likely to be far from home. Exams continue for another 10 years. The factual knowledge and clear thinking required as well as the ability to make sound decisions and communicate well and pleasantly under stress, the need to be able to ensure details are accurate mean that not all are intellectually or emotionally capable.

I see nothing wrong with encouraging any child who wants to do medicine - they will need to be supported through the sciences, the work experience, the applications process, they will need to be self motivated and for that motivation to be nurtured, not destroyed by teachers. There are many medical schools in the country. Entry requirements are not all the same. No teacher can or should be deciding for 10 or 14 year olds who is or isn't suitable to be a doctor. After gcse's if results are not good enough, the children and parents themselves will realise. If results are good enough, then the children should be encouraged further.

mummytime there is nothing wrong with a child of an immigrant wanting to be a doctor or a lawyer. Teachers who 'smile at myself' if a 14 year old says that to them, and can only put this down to pushy parents are very sad teachers. Medicine and the law both have competitive entries and need students with good memory and good communication skills.
A child who wants to do either should not be simply smiled at and put down, and worse, made to feel that the only reason they have aspiration is due to pushy unrealistic immigrant parents.
No, mummytime you do these children an injustice. If you are a teacher you should rather be thinking how you are going to support and encourage each and everyone of those children in their aspirations.

It's just stupid to talk about which ones are 'good' or not (eg Oxbridge is crap). As alice15 said, it's about different teaching styles and methods so the key is to work out what you want, what you like, do some research and apply accordingly.

I really would think twice, and then twice more, about steering a 10 year old down a particular course.

Obviously s/he should go to a school where they take sciences seriously: a good school, in other words. I'm delighted that the local comp where DD1 is likely to go to specialises in sciences (not least because she is a very wordy/arty child and therefore needs an emphasis on that element of the curriculum). But surely the most important thing, at this point, to focus is a good broad-based education incorporating sciences, humanities (including at least one language) and some arty-farty stuff*?

*disclaimer: I personally am v partial to arty-farty stuff.

"Biology is obviously useful too."

A lot of the courses require Biology at AS level.
DS is hoping to take Maths Physics and Chemistry but was then maybe doing a something like Phylosophy and Ethics until we had the connexions interview and she showed us the requirements for the various universities.

edinburgh require
Chemistry at A level
plus Biology, Maths or Physics
Also Biology at AS level

I believe Cambridge now has some clinical work in the first couple years, though it's mainly preclinical as discussed above. It still does the 'intercalated year' so students do Natural Sciences (or rarely another subject) and get a BA halfway through. So could be good for a scientist who is interested in medicine but might be considering a research rather than medical career, or want that as a backup option.

As far as schools are concerned, the vital thing is A-level Chemistry. Biology is obviously useful too. So I'd go for a school that offers three separate sciences for GCSE rather than only double-cert combined science - whatever they say about being able to do A-level from 2GCSE science, it's a heck of a lot harder and anyone considering medicine will probably want to study as much science as possible.

Agree with unimother, most important thing is that science teaching at the school is good, that it offers separate sciences at gcse and ideally lots of students doing a-level sciences, ask to see breakdown and numbers for science results. Our school was v poor for sciences, teaching was poor basically and no separate sciences offered at gcse. a few people managed to get into it through their own hard work outside school and tuition.

My DD1 is currently studying medicine at Southampton and loves the course. She attended a bog standard comprehensive, which was actually an advantage since her exceptional GCSE/AS and eventually A2 were 'harder' earned, in the words of the interviewer than pupils from private/selective schools. But during her interview all they asked her about was her work with a tall ships charity that offers experiences to handicapped people and the fact she chose Graphics as her 4th AS. She ended up with an offer of BBB, unusually low. Try to ensure your DC is a well rounded person and they will have a better chance. Of course her father was a GP so in all fairness that probably helped.

mumblechum1

Having worked with medics from Oxford I'd agree with you. One problem is the actual students - they do not live in the real world and can't cope with the idea that someone has to bring their child wiht them because they don't have a nanny, or with people who don't speak English.