Scottish Secondary - Please help. New National 4/5 how many will your council allow?

"throw"

mustdash - I've had some friends say how fantastic their child is doing compared to past years reports. Maybe if I through in a few smiley faces in my reports at work it will have the same reaction, worth a shot...

oldmum - totally agree with your posts, I just wish other parents took the time to research what the CfE really means for their children.

.... I think those who are going to be let down the most, are not the "bright kids", but the large number who are going to have NO nationally assessed exams at age 16......

Absolute madness.

MUSTDASH I assume the Dundee teacher meant 3 subject to be chosen by the pupil, + Maths and English.

My ds3 has just started S3 in a north Fife school, and will, thankfully not be caught up in this whole appalling, ill thought-out mess. However, DS4 is still pre school so it does concern me.

The past few years, I've watched with horror the various changes in primary schools - our DS primary was a pilot for the PLP crap, which seemed an exercise in obscuring from parents any real information about the progress of a child (in relation to his/her peers) from it's parents. When pressed for actual information, the usual "it is the progress of the individual not the class that's important" was trotted out, and in numerous meetings with the schools teachers/head we laid out our main argument against this - having some idea where you child is against his peer group (locally and nationally) is incredibly important in terms of identifying areas where the child needs extra help/tutoring. Smiley traffic light report cards containing no useful information are a pointless waste of time, for teachers and parents.
For 3 years in a row, we had these non-report cards, from which you would deduce that out DS2 (dyslexic and slipping further back every term at this point) had NO problems or issues at all at school, when in fact he was struggling and starting to turn off from education. We were in a position to know that the "happy-smiley everything is progressing well report card" wasn't true, and also strong willed enough to challenge the school about it, but many parents are oblivious to the problems (don't know, don't want to know, and believe all the sugary statements about the wonderful new system). I had very little success in trying to raise awareness of the changes with other parents.

I remember one "explanatory" meeting at the school, where DH and I sat in horror at what was being said in the Q and A session - "getting the answer wrong in maths is not important, it's the process that's important" (in response to a Q about why a DC wrong maths Q were not being corrected),

my DH interjection of "if they are getting the answers wrong perhaps they don't understand the PROCESS", went down like a lead balloon.

As I said, utter madness. And now we are to have a whole generation of students with potentially damaged life chances when they leave school ..... Universities are going to have serious issues with admissions criteria if some schools only allow 5 nat5 exams, and some allow up to 10. Also, taking highers 2 or 3 at a time instead of 5 in one sitting can cause problems with entry to elite courses such as Medicine and Vet Med (and incidentally in these courses Standard Grade/GCSE results are a crucial part of the selection process), the Unis want to see that the student can handle a heavy and academically rigorous workload.

It is easy for the powers-that-be to say change is always threatening and we (parents) are just reacting to change and it will all be much better than it was before....... but I think in this case it's been a long series of ill thought out, half-arsed and badly implemented changes which will benefit no one, not staff, pupils or parents, but may save the education authorities a pile of cash.

Having resisted going down the private education route for DS1-3 (decent enough local secondary supplemented by tutoring in key subjects ), we are now actively considering it for DS4. We know we are very lucky we can consider that option.

Just coming back to this as new term is getting under way and I am still no further forward in getting my head round all of this.

@mustdash - is it online? Can you link?

Let us know how you get on, dash

I've seen an ad by the SQA in the local paper tonight which says they are currently working with parents and teachers in your local area to develop new qualifications to prepare pupils for college, uni and employment. Just a load of blurb really.

I have a P6 who will go next summer to a high school where they make choices for S2&3 and then S3&4 allowing them to concentrate on half the exams at once. It's a concern that this has been planned for quite some time and yet they don't seem to know what the hell they are doing.

I work in early years where a lot of work has been started in the last 5 years for the change over but it's still not sure about things which is ridiculous. If you're going to implement something you should know which way it should be going and easily understood for parents.

Just an idea, can we link this page to the local Scottish sites on the forum?

Please do - it's a bit late in the day, perhaps, but the more this is known about, the less of a surprise it will be when the whole thing is called into question.

^One point: National 4 is, unbelievably, actually equivalent to general standard grade, not foundation.

Also, two very small things:

1. There is a tiny typo: "within their schooIs"
2. Should "external standard grade" be "externally examined standard grade"?^

Thank you, I missed those. More hurry etc... :o

Just an idea, can we link this page to the local Scottish sites on the forum?

I think that email is very good. If everyone on here did the same you never know, it might wake up someone somewhere.

One point: National 4 is, unbelievably, actually equivalent to general standard grade, not foundation.

Also, two very small things:

1. There is a tiny typo: "within their schooIs"
2. Should "external standard grade" be "externally examined standard grade"?

Let us know how you get on.

In addition, it seems there is some confusion over both the number

Delete both and plural number! Sorry, more hurry, less haste.

Can anyone help me with wording an e-mail?

Is something like this any use?

Dear xxxxx

I am a parent of a child whose education will now be conducted under the new CfE and I have been reading about what is proposed in respect of the exam / academic challenge and other changes to our children's education.

I am extremely concerned about the lack of information about the content, assessment and academic rigour within this curriculm and therefore would be very much obliged if you would clarify what has replaced 5 - 14 progression.

My reading has also led me to understand that those candidates who would at present sit an external standard grade at foundation level will now be assessed wholly within their schooIs. Needless to say, this surprises me somewhat and I would therefore appreciate both clarification of this point and request details of the academic content of the new Nationals at all levels. I find it hard to believe that a National 4 will be recognised by employers or colleges if it is merely a certificate from school.

In addition, it seems there is some confusion over both the number of National 5 subjects available to pupils - will it be a matter of variance from school to school, with some schools offering as few as 5 subjects? If this is so, then it somewhat belies the ethos of a broad and general education, does it not?

My final concern is in respect of the changes to Highers and how Universities will regard the proposals for Higher courses to be spread over two years. Will the new Higher course have parity and an equal amount of academic depth as an A level, thus making an Honours Degree in Scotland a three year course, as it is in England? Will the courses that, at present, require a candidate to achieve five Highers in one sitting still recognise these new exams?

I appreciate these are weighty questions, but I am equally sure that you appreciate my concerns as a parent. This affects my children's futures. I very much look forward to clarification on all questions raised within this letter and I would appreciate a prompt response in respect of the same.

Yours etc

Jacaqueen: You can use my post any way you want. I hope it is useful.

Pointydog: What is happening in secondary schools is that people are getting on with it as best they can. Mainly they are updating courses using the limited information that has been released. Nobody seems to know what will happen but...headteachers don?t have any answers because their director of education doesn?t have an answer because the minister of education doesn?t have an answer. So?we complain a bit, which makes no difference to anything, and then get on with our job as best we can.
Whenever we point out the problems with CfE the response is ?Teachers are moaning again?they are resistant to change?they are not prepared to adapt and need to move with the times.? That has all worked pretty well. Probably because that?s what the general public think of us anyway.

The current issue with teachers? pay and conditions is a separate issue but there is a similar narrative: ?Look at their holidays?short days?outdated working practices?have to do their fair share?they?re not special?who do they think they are?? etc. Conditions and pay were recently cut and many EIS members felt their union didn?t fight for their interests strongly enough. In July there will be a wider review of teachers? conditions. Submissions to that review have leaking and they do not look good for teachers which is what you have seen in the news.

I think very little will happen to improve the implementation of CfE as it is not in the interest of anyone involved (except teachers and parents of course).

The unions: Main teaching union is the EIS (much larger than the SSTA which is only for secondary teachers). The EIS have been on the CfE management board throughout this whole process and have generally been positive regarding CfE. I am told by some that primary teachers have less of a problem with CfE than secondary, mainly because it is better than what they had before (but you?d have to ask them whether that?s true).
Expecting the EIS to turn around and attack the principles of CfE now is slightly unrealistic. That said, the EIS at their recent conference voted to ballot members on boycotting CfE but the ballot won?t be held until November and I personally don?t see it making much difference: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13729147

Since May 2010 the SSTA have been criticising CfE and in about October 2010 were kicked off the management board after threatening industrial action.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8665793.stm
www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-10985845

Political parties: Labour started this whole thing before the SNP took power the last time so any attack on it is likely to be limited to ?You aren?t doing this properly and are hence ruining CfE? rather than ?Stop CfE immediately?

The SNP pursued CfE even after the demotion of Fiona Hyslop, the last education minister. They could have ditched large portions of it then but didn?t. Mike Russell has consistently defended CfE and the government?s handling of all.

Other organisations include?

LTS: Responsible for CfE and in my opinion a significant contender for the most hopeless, hapless, incompetent organisation ever to have existed in the history of the Planet Earth. Never has so little been produced by so many for so long. LTS employed large numbers of teachers, taken out of schools on short term contracts, rotating them after a couple of years after having produced very little. LTS is now being ?merged? with Her Majesty?s Inspectorate, has apparently been stripped to a shadow its former self and the teachers have been allowed to return to their schools.

SQA/HMI: They have been supportive of CfE. If I were a more cynical person I might say that they saw there wouldn?t be room for three big organisations in future and were keen not to be the one that was axed. If that was their strategy it worked. LTS is going. SQA are busy writing assessments to fit with CfE, even though they can?t fit with CfE, and generally seem to be doing a good impression of Pontius Pilate whenever they are questioned. HMI are cheerfully inspecting schools, making sure they are preparing for CfE properly although they don?t seem to have any more of an idea what that means than we do (although good luck ever getting them to admit that).

So?there really isn?t anyone who will help as far as I can see. But that?s just my opinion.

Have any of the opposition parties had anything to say about this? I can't believe they are just sitting back and letting this happen. Are any of the serious Scottish national papers (if they are still serious, or national) likely to be supportive?

This is the bit I really don't get - when did Scots turn into sheep? Why has there been no public discourse on all of this? It seems as if the role of a teacher is being devalued to the point where their own academic achievements count for nothing and as for viewing them as professionals? Pah! What do we know - our lords and masters know better. After all, they went to school once. Cynical? Me?

WIs it because it always gets dragged back down in to the discussion about teachers pay and conditions? I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with that, but there are separate issues here that are being melded

Agreed. And when you do try to raise the matter, it is dismissed as 'moaning and complaining again'. See much earlier post in response to that particualr comment!

I think I'll also write to my local director of education, and msp.

Please, please do - and send a copy to the media?

Can anyone help me with wording an e-mail?

If no-one else can help, I can do so tomorrow, if you'd like. But being one of these lazy teachers, I'm bogged down with planning this evening.

(where's the pissed-off emoticon when you need it!)