Getting into a north London private school at secondary

Bread - seriously, stop with the bashing of a well put out comment. I also don't see any snobbery in HMM comment.

Its not surprising that the prep students will find the enviroment of a private senior school less challenging because they have come from a similar enviroment.

Its also not right to assume that all prep pupils are not independent enough to think on their own - its the very opposite. They start acting like secondary children at age 8 in Y3!

Pupils in state schools may find the enviroment 'different' but like everyone else in a new enviroment, they will cope.

Sometimes this private vs state debate is crippled by those who refuse to see the plain truth and try to use sweeping generalisations.

bread you are quite obviously misinterpreting what HMM said.

My understanding is that she is saying kids from prep school are better prepared for life at private senior school. That seems evidently true to me. Different subject teachers, moving class rooms etc - most kids at prep (except the smallest) are doing this from year three.

At no point was she saying that children from state school can't and don't make the transition. Of course they do. At DD's secondary, all except one girl has settled in from state school.

Their Mums tell me that yes, they did find the regime tough in the beginning (some more than others) but within a couple of terms all is well.

Actually, thinking about it, most of the sought-after state schools in my area are if anything fiercer about uniform/planners/remembering kit than the private schools are. Both my older dc (in two different state schools) are expected to stand up when teachers come into the room, stand aside in corridors and address teachers as 'sir'. Forgetting homework/planners/kit is an instant detention.

Bread, I think you're deliberately misinterpreting what horsemad is saying. I don't see in her posts any assumption that state school kids are feral savages, or that she values snobbery above academics. You do get people on MN who seem to say, or at least imply, pretty much exactly that, but I'm not seeing it on this thread.

She seems to be simply pointing out that most trad prep schools have certain formal expectations re uniform/homework/standing up etc that differ from those found in most primary schools, and that this different experience can be a bit of a culture shock for some primary dc moving into some private secondaries.

Of course it's a generalisation, and there are some private schools (both prep and senior) which are very laid back and informal, and some state schools that are very formal and traditional.

Being successful at secondary school, private or state, is not in my opinion, primarily about remembering your kit or standing up/aside for teachers.

If that is what you want your children to learn, then clearly private school is vital.

If, on the other hand, you value education rather than social snobbery like horsemadmom, then you can achieve that just fine through the state system.

Hmmm...Not at all what I said.
To clarify-
Most state primaries do not give or only give small amounts of homework. Subjects are not taught separately by several different teachers.
State primary schools, even if they have a uniform, will not have separate kit for each sport which must be remembered.
My children stand when a teacher enters the room and step to the side when an adult passes in the hall. Not usual in state primaries.

In my experience, prep kids and kids who come from the state system do equally well. These schools aren't so stupid that they can't sniff out a child who has been prepped beyond their ability.

Littletinkers, ignore the chippy people. Not all of us prep/private parents make sweeping generalisations. Some of us just had really bad local primary options.

From my experience at HBS, the dimmest children came from private schools. So arguably, if you have a dim child and want them to struggle for 7 years in a school that is too hard for them and be miserable in the bottom groups, send them to a prep school first to give them an 'advantage'.

Any bright child from a state primary will have no difficulties getting in. Obviously, they need to prepare but you can do this yourself - make sure they've covered the yr 6 curriculum thoroughly by the start of the year. But it's not hard - it's aimed at 11 year olds after all - so no need to hire a tutor to do this.

Contrary to horsemadmom's assumption, children at state primaries aren't actually feral savages, used to tearing at hunks of meat with their bare hands and grunting. We're actually quite normal, too.

Agree with the above. The advantage of a prep school is that the children will not have tutoring after school and will be prepared for the workload and organisation those secondaries expect. The standards (work, behaviour etc.) will not be a shock to prep kids. However, One of DD's BFs came from a crap primary and found that the senior school was really patient and helpful as she got used to what was expected- correct uniform, completing assignments on time and up to standard, polite behaviour to teachers, revision timetabling and organisation. DS had a classmate who, although an out and out genius, never managed to adjust to what was expected and was asked to leave. The private schools usually use yr 7 as time to get everyone up to speed. There is no social disadvantage to coming up from a state school.

I agree that certainly for Habs and HB you won't get in regardless of where you go to primary unless you're very bright. The difference is that a private prep will do the legwork on exam prep for you and a state won't, plus they will have years of experience of preparing children for these exams.

Plenty of children from state primaries get in, though - with and without tutoring - but the ones who get in without tutoring are usually mindblowingly clever.

That's nonsense. The vast majority of the intake to Henrietta Barnett (and Latymer, and Owens etc) come from state schools. The private secondaries will have a higher intake from prep schools, obviously, but I know lots of dc who've got places at those schools (including scholarships) from state primary schools, and not particularly pushy ones at that.

If your child is bright, you keep your eye on the ball wrt what they're learning at school and top up with a bit of exam preparation in Y5 (maths and english esp for the private schools) there's no reason why they shouldn't stand as good a chance as anyone else.

Absolute rubbish. All those schools take a significant number of children from state primaries but you will need to find a tutor with experience of preparing state school children. I would say that if your child is on track for a 5 for their Yr6 SATS and has a good range of extra curricular activities under their belt then with tutoring they'll stand as good a chance as prep school children of getting in. In your friends defence though, regardless of where your children are for primary they will need to be exceptionally bright or they won't be able to handle the demands of the schools you mentioned which are rigorously academic.