Should I send my DD to an academic school when she is 'average' ?

There is still a wide range of abilities at selective schools. Someone has to be bumping along the bottom.

It all depends on how your DD learns. Does she get pulled up by cleverer kids, or does she need to be at the top for her own self esteem?

There is no right answer.

School entry tests are not a good indicator of how kids will perform once at secondary school, they are just specific tests of how well they can do certain things on the day.

If she passed the tests and got in based on her performance then I think you shouldn't worry about her struggling. Definitely they develop at different ages as exoticfruits says and this could be a wonderful opportunity to nurture her academically - especially a good sign if your DD1 loved it there. It sounds like the option she really wants so why not go for it because her own motivation will take her a long way too!

Also don't forget 'snuck in' may sound like she's at the bottom of the list, but you don't know how many others will have only achieved a few points more than her and be at the same level, AND she had to beat lots and lots of others below that who didn't get in at all!

It'd be awful if you sent her elsewhere and found she was ahead of the crowd and not stimulated or challenged academically...

Also, Crunched, the admissions person at the more academic school might just have made an unfortunate choice of words with "snuck in". She may have meant to be amusing rather than seeming like she was doing you a favour.

We all have those foot in mouth moments sometimes (well, I do!)

You may be interested to know that I am the admissions person at a very academic school, and this year the difference between the last kid getting an offer on 1st March, and the current number 16 on our waiting list is 4 marks. So if no. 16 does get a place, I'd hardly call it scraping in!

"I do think we fuss too much about kids' ability. It's more important at school that they are prepared to give it a go and take advice from teachers, do the homework and occasionally pull something more creative and innovative out the bag. I wish schools would stop chasing Oxbridge entrance and A Level success as if they were some kind of end in themselves. It's so much more important to mature as an individual, develop a work ethic, and learn to pursue an intellectual life of your own. If more pupils did all this, our country would be a much happier, prosperous place".

Brilliant post

Dommy, they also say "Where there's muck, there's brass".

I do think we fuss too much about kids' ability. It's more important at school that they are prepared to give it a go and take advice from teachers, do the homework and occasionally pull something more creative and innovative out the bag. I wish schools would stop chasing Oxbridge entrance and A Level success as if they were some kind of end in themselves. It's so much more important to mature as an individual, develop a work ethic, and learn to pursue an intellectual life of your own. If more pupils did all this, our country would be a much happier, prosperous place.

As me mother used to say

Aim at the stars and you might just hit the gooseberry bush, aim at the gooseberry bush and you could end up in the muck

And there's a more poetic version

Aim for the moon, that way, even if you miss you'll still be amongst the stars. W. Clement Stone

I have a friend who's DS1 aced the grammar school exams and who's DS2 was desperate to follow. He hasn't got in, and is devasted, but would jump at the chance of still getting him in, even if it was a last minute 'snuck in' offer. I really think the crux of this is to see if your DD3 is really keen to go for her own reasons. As a third child myself, I did feel that less was expected of me and whilst that can be useful, I think we can also end up being a little overlooked....

Everyone has different experiences and the worst bit about parenting is that we often don't know until after the event, if our choices were right.You can only make a decision based on what you know now...... oh that hindsight were available in a BOGOF from Sainsburys......

Professional hat on. If you like a school, and your children do, then you should always apply as you would be very surprised how adolescents change over the years, and how much regrouping happens in terms of academic attainment. Also schools spend a lot of time talking up their standards and the view behind the scenes can be very different. You can always review your daughter's happiness and attainment in a couple of years and decide whether to move her for GCSEs. Not enough people consider this as an option, IMO.

Hello Crunched, are you in the watford/herts area ? The academic school sounds very much like our local grammar (by name only, actually a partially selective comprehensive).

If I were in your position, I would probably let dd3 go to the academic school if that is what she really wants. She had to reach a certain level to be on waiting list (well done to her) so good for her for knowing what she wants.

Not sure if relevant but some kids are slower to reach their potential, so may be too early to judge.

From my own experience, I failed the exam to a highly selective school quite spectacularly at 6, "snuck in" via waiting list to another v. academic school at 8, at 11 I got in at the bottom end of the intake at the school where i'd previously failed, and ended up thriving there from around 14 and somehow made it into Oxford. I'm not saying this is necessarily similar for other DC - just that it may be too early to tell, and if she likes the idea of this school, why not give it a try?

My DS who was at top end of his state primary also got into a highly academic selective school at 11 but we later found out that he had been at the bottom end of the range of those who were offered places. At the end of Y7 he won a prize for the greatest improvement academically as he had improved more than any other child on his academic performance in the entrance exam. So you just cannot predict how things will go!

If she wants to go and you don't send her she may be resentful later.

If you have told DD3 she has got the place and she is keen to go then you can't really pull the plug now. Monitor it and she can move if unhappy - places always come up and kids move around so much more that you are soon no longer the new girl.

Would it be worth a chat with a Y7 teacher at the school, maybe with some examples of the work she is doing now?

I would go a lot with what she wants as much as anything.
You can't really know until she gets there.My DC1 came on in leaps and bounds in year 7-he was just a late developer.It depends a lot on whether you think she has reached a peak or whether she has plenty of scope to develop.

Errrr.

No. Not trying to reduce the competition - just replying honestly about what we did.

But we did factor in hugely what schools our dcs actually liked. I think children get a sense of whether they feel comfortable iyswim.

I would say op that children thrive in all sorts of environments if they have loving support at home. So your dd is pretty well ahead in that regard.

Yes send her definitely she'll be fine I'm sure. Those that sneak in are no less bright than those that just pass or those that pass in the middle somewhere either. She will find her level once she is there and should not be over-stretched. She will of course be good at some things and perhaps less so at others, and if the school's worth it's salt, will improve these areas with her. My friends DD now 16 yrs was in your DDs shoes and her weakest subject - Maths has been so perfected, that now she's about to do her GCSE, she's expecting a good grade. As for the sport and music, they'll encourage this too I'm sure. A really good school usually does. Same friends' DD fits in over 16 hours of extra sport a week (she's at county level in Gymnastics) and still gets the homework done and has time to really have fun with mates at the weekend etc. Yes your DD's different from her sister, but obviously has other recognised talents and got in on her own merits.

If by chance after a term or two your DD does happen to be finding it very hard, it is possible to put her name down for the local school and wait for a place - but much more difficult to go to the local school and await a place at the academic school. Go for it, I think you'll be pleased you did.

There is no question she earned her place there, just by making the waiting list for a selective school. Most people get better as they age, unless they've been over-coached early - which doesn't sound like it here.

Also remember that there isn't much correlation between those who just "snuck" in and the ones who leave at the "tail" end after 5 or 7 years. Consider how pleased no 16 would be if she got the chance.

So imho if she's keen, let her enjoy herself. You'll have to support her so much over the next seven years, why not let her fly as high as she wants to? At least she'll never have to say, "I could have if I'd gone..."

Well done to DD3!

I was a bright kid at a large comp. I had a great time and a good education.
My "average" sister got far less attention, worse teachers and worse grades than she should have.

If she understands she'll have to work and is happy with single sex go for it and well done for her for getting in.

(I want my good, but not brilliant DD2 to try for the girls grammar, but I'm not sure she will. Dyslexic DD1 muddles along in her own unique way at the mixed comp, is every bit as bright as DD2, but no way has the written skills necessary to cope at the grammar and anyway she rubs along better with the boys than the girls - purely platonic, it's fashion and boyfriend gossip that drives her mad)

The last research I read showed girls did tend to do better but the effect was most marked on those more in the middle of the academic spectrum, IIRC.

Which if true suggests could be good for the OPs DD.

The jury is definitely out on the single sex/mixed sex schools better for girls. Various conflicting bits of research on that.

Frankly I expect my dds to be able to cope with boys at school and elsewhere, not have their pretty little heads turned by them.

But that's probably another thread. I would go with the school the dd wants to go to, if she's had a sibling at each she probably has some idea what they're like.