Kingsdale v's Dunraven

And of course you are more likely to be offered a place at your 1st choice school - for the simple fact that the places at your lower ranked schools are automatically rejected if you get your 1st place offer.

But you aren't more likely than other people who have applied for the same school to get a place at your 1st choice, just because you've put it first.

Or as the Head said (paraphrased) "Yes, its a bit complex but the one really important thing you must do is put the schools in the order you most want"

At the Open Day I went to last year, Kingsdale's Head did explain clearly that the absolute most important thing applicants should do was rank the their choices in order of their preference, outlining the process that Iamaworrywart & LondonMother described.

i.e. that the only reason to put Kingsdale first was if it was your genuine first preference, & the school would not know where you had ranked it.

Not sure how that's a porky...

Iamaworrywart and London Mother, many thanks. That is all clear. Naughty Kingsdale for telling porkies. Lets hope they didn't do it on purpose to encourage the right type of people to put them first over Graveney

Since Graveney has such an intense academic selection process, I would choose that one if my child was one of the top scorers.

IKWYM drosophila with regards to quirky academic which is why I'm still uncertain about Kingsdale or Graveney. DS did the language test at Chestnut too.

It was Wandsworth council admissions team that told me to prepare for an offer. I would imagine this situation is a rarity as most people don't have a wobble about the order they put their choices after offer day!

I think the only reason they told me to prepare to make a choice was because DS scored high so would be near the top of the selective list and due to movement a place is likely to become available. He doesn't have two offers and I imagine if the G place does come up we'll have to say yes or no straight away so that he is not sitting on two places which is why the heads up about being prepared. Please know it is not definite, just likely.

Yes I remember him saying that at the open day. It was someone on MN that convinced me to ignore him. I think someone said that Heads did not always know how the admissions system worked.

I'm far from an expert, quite the contrary! I did call up Wandsworth though just to find out DS' scores and it was them that suggested he go onto the waiting list.

Apparently Graveney has 2 lists, one selective and one catchment. I gather the catchment one has little movement but the selective one does. I think you can even ask to go on a waiting list for a school you didn't include in your original list.

TWOTB & drosophila, now we've been through this I would definitely put G first if you prefer it. Kingsdale told us (misleadingly) that we had a better chance if we put it first, hence my misguided blooper!

I find it hard to understand. I thought the point of the Pan system was to avoid people having 2 or more schools which clogged up the system in the past. How can a child have 2 schools when there are others I know who have not been offered any of their preferences. I could understand being on a waiting list if you were way down at the bottom.

Helsey - i would be interested to know who told you to prepare for an offer. Was it the school or the LEA?

I don't know for sure, drosophila. I think so because you can appeal if you don't get into your higher ranked schools, so that would suggest you can ask to go on the waiting list. But we need an expert here, really.

Londonmother - Is Iamaworrywart right, Is it possible to put yourself on the waiting list for each school on your list?

Woman on the bus, yes, it matters enormously what order you put the schools in. You only get one offer (or none). All the school admission authorities rank the applications they receive using the oversubscription criteria for that school. Then they send their lists to the LEA/Pan-London system, which checks to see who would get an offer. If at that stage any applicant would be in line to get more than one offer, the system automatically 'accepts' the offer from the school you ranked highest, and turns all the others down so that the places can be re-allocated to other children. They keep going round and round re-allocating and re-allocating until every child who can be made an offer has an offer from the highest possible school on their list.

If you prefer Graveney, you need to put it higher on the list than Kingsdale. Otherwise, if both schools could offer you a place, you would only get the Kingsdale offer.

You won't damage your chances at Kingsdale as schools are currently not allowed to ask what ranking you gave them and certainly can't take that into account in allocating places.

Helsey, thanks for the explanation. So your position is that you preferred Graveney and might get in from the waiting list. Good luck!

WorryWart I don't really know as DD did it! But I think they did some sort of maths and a reading comprehension???? It was only about half an hour - hour, it was on their induction day and I really don't know much about it at all!

Looking forward to applying for these schools next year.

I prefer Graveney over Kingsdale, but there is uncertainty as to whether DC will pass the test high enough and uncertainty over the Kingsdale lottery. So does it matter which way round I put them in the form?
Sorry if this is a stupid question - but I find it all so confusing!

If I put Graveney first but then the test score doesn't get to the 98% needed, do we then damage a chance of getting one of the lottery places at Kingsdale, or doesn't it matter?

Helsey - I don't understand how you would be offered a place at Graveney assuming you have accepted your place at Kingsdale. We have got a place at G (very happy) and it was our first choice. Kingsdale was our 5th and I would not have thought we would get an offer from there. DS did the language test for Chestnut and scored highly enough to get a place but I found that out the day before the results were anounced and promptly forgot about it. I have wondered if Chestnut might suit him better as he is a quirky child albeit very academic.

Is it possible to re-visit your 2 - 6th choices and if you change your mind somehow get offered a place (assuming you scored highly enough in the various tests)?

Thanks for adding your perspective on this miso. So helpful to have inside knowledge!

Your DD's primary may have been ambitious (possibly not) but at least they gave you suggestions and options. DS' primary failed to even mention the grammar option to anyone until long after the open days had been and gone and that was only when prompted! We had no opinions/help/advice whatsoever on which type of schooling may suit our DCs. (Soap box being put away now.)

BTM thanks for continuing imput. Feeling a bit silly after re-reading the thread to find you'd already answered some of my questions...oops.

Yes, there has been movement - quite a bit, all upwards as far as I know - many parents seem to have been very surprised to find their child in a "lower" stream than they thought they should have been put in. I didn't even realise that they were in streams at all till DD told me!

However, I really don't think there's a huge difference between the streams anyway.

Just to add, that I do know of a few children who have moved between streams, so yes, there is movement.

But I think there is limited space in the top streams, they are quite full - so if a child moves up a stream another would have to move down...

I think the kerfuffle was partly that in some schools there isn't much movement between streams, with quite a lot of difference between the 'top' stream and the rest - and that once you are in a lower stream you may as well be in a secondary modern, steered towards vocational courses etc.

Kingsdale have said (at one of their forums) that this isn't going to be the case & that there could easily be movement between streams.

Another concern was that the prospectus indicated that there was mixed ability teaching in Y7 (with extension work for some) and so we just weren't expecting the streaming to start so early.

DD's primary school suggested she apply for the Sutton grammar schools (though I have to say I think they were completely out of their tree on that one) and she's now coasting happily in the middle stream, and seems quite adequately challenged.

I think that's a reflection of the number of high ability children in the current Y7 - the top 2 streams are quite large - as well as DD just finding her place.

Thanks BTM, that really useful info. I don't know any current Kingsdale parents.

Why the kerfuffle? I would have thought that streaming for individual subjects was a good thing. Is there much movement across streams? Maybe too soon to tell.

How are you and DD finding it? It seems so idyllic.

Nothing is definite yet. We may have to choose. I thought both schools were a bit of a pipe dream, one being hugely oversubscribed lottery and t'other being hugely oversubscribed selective.

Ds has been offered a place at Kingsdale, but subsequently found out he scored highly enough for Graveney and would have got in if it had been above Kingsdale in preference. Apparently there is a very real possibility of them offering him a place from the waiting list which he is now on and we were told to be prepared to make a decision.

I must seem barking I know, but I underestimated how well DS would do so thought he may have a better shot at the lottery!

helsey, Kingsdale have streamed their current Y7's in 5 streams for everything, then put into ability groups for that stream. I think they went on SAT's results, interview and their own testing before the summer hols.

It has caused a huge kerfuffle amongst the Y7 parents.

DD was put into the A stream and is suitably challenged. Equally, I know of other children who seem very happy in different streams. TBH, I can't see that there's a huge difference between the streams anyway - loads of high acheivers in this year group.

I don't understand how you can be in the position now that you have places at both. Am I missing something here?