Kingsdale v's Dunraven

Sincity, No its not down to Southwark. They admister the admissions policies of the schools which (for academies, foundation, faith and so on) are set by the school themselves. They have no influence on allocations; only the Governing Body do and they have to comply with the code on admissions set by law (which gives some leeway as to how to arrange yourselves).

As I mentioned above, if it was proximity only (withou or without banding) (ie not lottery within bands), you'd get a smaller and smaller catchment area just like Graveney and only the wealthy would then ever stand a chance. They are trying to be fair by using a lottery, it just makes it difficult to predict and plan for us parents.

Yes but isn't it down to Southwark to make the final allocations so I thought they still had some influence on the final outcome. Individual schools may choose pupils but I thought that Southwark made final decision.

If that isn't the case then the system is even more flawed with no-one to be held accountable for the mess we have. (well it gives central and local government a let out)

But the admissions policies for Southwark secondary schools are hardly anything to do with Southwark anymore are they ?
I say hardly because I think there is some requirement ( prhbridge wiil know ) that Southwark ensures that the policies are clear ,open ,understandable - haha ,have you seen the admissions policy for the Crystal Palace Harris Academy ?
But all Southwark's secondary schools are Faith ,Foundation or Academy and as such they determine their own admissions policies .

Ha! I can trump that. Six years ago when we applied to Aske's, first year of current admissions policy - 2500 applicants for 200 places. Most oversubscribed school in England. For my son's band we'd have needed to live 140 metres from the school to get a place on proximity. That wouldn't take you from the Jerningham Road site to the Pepys Road site.

Commiserations to all of you going through this now.

LW - ds1 goes to Bacons but again we were very lucky tho live close.

COLA operates catchment and not too keen now - liked it when we looked round about four years ago.

Sincity I can guess the school with the new primary phase. According to our rejection letter they had 1757 applications for the 165 places, and I think 60 of the 165 go to the children from the primary phase if they want them.

The last place offered in DD's band was to someone 814 metres from the school, and we are 2054 metres away, so I don't think our position as reserve no. 38 (and I assume that's in her band, of which there are 9) is going to get us very far.

Still we got our 2nd choice, which was realistically our 1st choice, so we are very happy and very glad we moved out of Southwark.

oops, 'places' and 'them'.

Most of the girls in DD's class have been offered a place at a v large Lewisham girls' school, so it seems Southwark can't get it together to offer places within the borough (although if 'placs within the borough' meant the girls' school in south Southwark, I think most of the would be happier with the Lewisham option.

Sincity it's a shame it's like that in the North too. I thought that with Bacon's and COLA (presumably one of those is the one you referred to) at least if you lived nearby you had the chance of a decent school in Southwark.

Has anyone challenged Lord Harris of Carpetright as to why all his schools (with the exception of the Crystal Palace one I think) are still so shit?

"Also with some operating catchment and some lottery it's a completely unlevel playing field".

Exactly.

And getting your child a secondary school place should not be so convoluted and stressful. Ffs. Especially when you are not asking for all that much.

Also with some operating catchment and some lottery it's a completely unlevel playing field.

There is also a very popular school in a neighbouring borough which ahs now linked itself to a failing primary school so chances of getting a place there are even less than previously.

I am in north Southwark and will be applying to Kingsdale for my ds2 who will be moving in 2012. He will also be applying forthe maths scholarship. If we were lucky enough to get a place we will probably move closer to the school (as we are in private rental)

We do have a local school in North Southwark but that also operates a lottery system for admissions and does not operate a sibling policy. It does have an inner or outer catchment area though.

Seems to me that Southwark operate social engineering by sending kids all over the borough and there's no guarantee that you will get your local school - it's simply luck.

In the current year 6 of my ds2s secondary school about a third have been allocated to an 'improving school' in a less pleasant area of the borough. It may well be improving but I would not be happy for my ds to travel through parts of London where there knife crime and shootings are a regular occurence.

Nightmare.

There were plans to build a new secondary school north of the borough as literally thousands of new properties being built (not sure whether they are inhabited by families though more likely international property speculators and rich city types) but these plans have been shelved.

I think most parents just want a decent local school for their kids to attend and not the scrum that currently exists.

Ernest Bevin I think take the first 65 or so based on test results. I also think Burntwood do too.

Chestnut Grove give spaces to those with an aptitude in Art or Languages. ADT to kids with apitude in technology. As far as I know these spaces are not restricted to location.

Graveney is super selective though isn't it? Are there any others? Where would I find out about them? tia ...

Yes there are schools in Wandsworth that you can apply to from SOuthwark - Graveney for one. It is quite common for kids to come from other boroughs to Graveney.

The Kingsdale admissions system is a law unto itself. Search for Kingsdale on The East Dulwich Forum and you will find several long and convoluted threads from frustrated local parents trying to get their heads round the idea that this state comprehensive can a) be selective and b) have a lottery system for admissions. This is not fair on local families for the simple fact that the lottery is being played in a bubble. Are there, for instance, any good secondary schools in Wandsworth that I can apply to, as a Southwark resident, which don't admit on distance from the school?

Hiya bigtilly fancy seeing you here!

There is alot of upset amongst local families who have not been offered their first choice place at Kingsdale this year - I feel we were really lucky to get in last year as obviously alot of the places are not going to local kids

Well I live in Wandsworth and their is a bus direct to Dulwich and then a walk to Kingsdale. Not ideal and I figured about an hour journey. The lottery appealed as school admissions in Wandsworth can be very tough. My primary school did not know about the lottery system in Kingsdale but will probably tell parents next year.

We were lucky this year and got first choice as did quite a few parents so perhaps this year in Wandsworth is a better one than the past.

I am all for local schools for local kids and I do agree that it seems so unfait the local kids that live close to Kingsdale are not getting in now that it has improved.

I've been a bit surprised to see Wandsworth parents on here too.

But Burntwood (girls only) in Wandsworth also has aptitude places and pupils travel across on a bus that starts at West Norwood (quite close to Kingsdale)and goes via Tulse Hill, Brixton & Clapham. So there's a tradition of making that long journey in the opposite direction.

Personally, Kingsdale wouldn't be first on my list if I lived close to Graveney, Chestnut Grove or Burntwood with a reasonable chance of getting in, purely because of the journey.

But then I wouldn't put Graveney etc first if I lived next to Kingsdale, either, and perhaps some would - or it would be the right choice for a specific child.

LadyWellian, indeed, it makes no difference in which borough you live. That is a consequence of the lottery system the school has adopted, and - designed - as it happens to prevent admissions through house prices and contracting catchment areas.

We live in Clapham, and have to cross Southwark to get there, but we will likely try. Kingsdale seems better than the local alternative. Parents living next to Kingsdale are of course also free to apply to Graveney (selection), Chesnut Grove (aptitude for arts or music) and even Lambeth Academy (although the latter is only on distance so likely no chance).

Drosophila I don't remember him saying that but he went on for so long I may have nodded off. Actually, I remember now, I did have to leave before the end.

Other heads at oversubscribed schools stressed the importance of being realistic and using all your options, not just the great schools that you might be unlikely to get into.

We had Kingsdale as #3 or 4, I can't remember now. DD is at a Southwark primary even though we now live outside the borough and her school has a tradition of sending lots to Kingsdale (even in the days when it was a school you wouldn't send your dog to if you could help it) so we thought if we didn't get our first two (nearer to us now but both very popular) then at least if she went to Kingsdale she would know people there.

This year only about 3 people from DD's school have got in to Kingsdale.

I have to say I'm a bit amazed (though geographically ignorant) to see Wandsworth parents on this thread. Where is the nearest bit of Wandsworth to Kingsdale? (I know Southwark is very thin at the south end.) Does the lottery happen within a geographical radius or can you apply from anywhere in London?

I think some parents at DD's school will be feeling a bit miffed that they have supported this previously catastrophically awful school on its path to improvement and are now being passed over.

We were lucky enough to get into our local school (we're only about 600m away but nothing is guaranteed) but I do feel for the Southwark parents who were hoping there would be a co-ed school in the south of the borough for them.

When I heard him speak he was implying that if you didn't have it first choice you would not be getting a place. It was his tone and his emphasis. I started a thread here along the lines of - do heads know how you ranked them - I was persuaded that they didn't but the cynic in me thought they did.

No, schools aren't allowed to know how you ranked them, they can only allocate based on their published admission policy. And yes the lottery is between everyone who put it on their list.

So in the first round you get a place at every school on your list that you are eligible for, and are automatically offered the highest one on your list and the others are rejected.

(And before March 1st this process is repeated until the schools fill up & the final 1st round offers go out)

So there could be people who been offered Kingsdale when it was their 2nd or even later choice, if their 1st choices were ones they didn't get because they live too far away or aren't Catholic enough or whatever.

The good news for you is that if they do get offered a place at their preferred school, then you will move up the waiting list. And people do get places off the waiting list, so it's worth hanging in there.

Ok I'm still confused ! I had assumed that the Kingsdale lottery would have been among those who put it as their first choice, since there wd have been more applicants than places who had put it as first choice. I assumed u wouldn't even get a look in if u ranked it any lower. But r u suggesting that the lottery was between everyone who put it on their list at all? I wd be sickened if I found out someone was offered a place when it was not their first choice when we didn't get a place and it was our first choice ...

Hmmm... we did go to one of the later days, and I got the impression he was clarifying since people were concerned - so you may be right there.

Perhaps they wanted to avoid parents thinking that if their child had a scholarship they would automatically get a place even if they didn't put Kingsdale 1st - that has caused confusion in the past.

They had so many open days it is possible he was a bit misleading initially and then amended his speech for following dates.

I hate to think it was done on purpose.