Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

will my son be disavantaged if he doesnt have the ebac?

56 replies

summer68 · 17/02/2011 16:48

My son was looking forward to dropping mfl in yr 10 (although hes targeted to get a B)but now having been informed about the english bac he feels that he HAS to take french or spanish. I am concerned that he will not enjoy the subject and wonder how important the bac is to pupils. His school have informed us that most uni s will only take pupils with the bac, but I am realy confused as I didnt think that gcse s were taken into concideration at uni. I feel completely out of my depth with this matter as I dont seem to fully understand the whole further ed system ( never having had the oppotunity to go through it myself).
I hope some one can offer some advice, please.
He has to hand his options paperwork in tommorow!

OP posts:
princessparty · 22/02/2011 09:54

You don't think a language don might be wishful thnking, trying to boosy the importance of his subject?

mummytime · 22/02/2011 06:43

I'll have to ask again, but this was in a private conversation with a language Don at one of the most academic colleges. I was discussing with her why I hadn't applied as an undergraduate. Of course it does depend on courses. Science and Engineering might find a way to take a bright, enthusiastic etc. candidate but it would be different for Medicine, Law or Classics.

TalkinPeace2 · 21/02/2011 20:44

Ignore the whole concept of Ebacc
think in terms of core academic subjects
then you cannot go far wrong

Original poster
summer68 · 20/02/2011 23:37

Thanks scaryteacher for that advice- but I seem to keep getting the message that a mfl or ebac will "probably" be required. I dont understand why its not made nice and clear so students can make the right choice for them.
My fear all along has been that the school will "encourage" students to do the e bac to boost results, but need a reason to push it hence - you "may" be required to have the ebac to get into uni.

And to respond to mummytime- I was told he would def. need the ebac to get into oxford- even reading up on the net so I was very interested to read what you said- especialy as my son is dyslexic and works very hard to get high grades ( and it was once reccomended that he didnt take a mfl because of his dyslexia)

OP posts:
mummytime · 20/02/2011 16:40

Even UCL has a backdoor for those without MFL, which is to get up to standard in a MFL in their first year.

This is because as I was told by Oxford just after they had dropped their MFL requirement, that the University doesn't want to discriminate against very bright students who have just gone to schools which are awful at languages. Nevermind the dyslexic students, who have done very well to get the English qualification.

princessparty · 20/02/2011 16:16

Hang on a mo.2012 entrants will be current Y12s who were doing GCSEs when this EBAC hadn't even been dreamed up??

I understood this ebac is purely a means of measuring schools performance, to discourage schools 'grade chasing' by pushing students into soft courses which purport to be worth 4 GCSEs

scaryteacher · 19/02/2011 16:12

From 2012 UCL will require every applicant to have an MFL at GCSE. I suspect every RG uni may follow this eventually. Thus, I would suggest that it is better to get it out of the way now than find he has to take it whilst doing sixth from to get into uni.

This info is included in the new guidance issued by the Russell Group.

Original poster
summer68 · 19/02/2011 15:58

First can I say a big thankyou to all the replies- ive only just been able to read them as i was unwell yesterday.
My son has handed in his option form and has chosen french in order to get the ebac, in his words he said "well if I have to go to school to study, I may as well try to get the best qualifications that I can"

Beenbeta asked if my sons school recommened the ebac- yes they highly recommended it and every teacher gave a scripted answer but i dont think some of them meant what they were saying. The school prides its self on its results ( being above av. for a state school). Which is why I have been desperatly searching the net for answers!

Thanks for taking an interest in this post, although the answers are very mixed, it has been very interesting to read.
I have told my son that if he finds he realy hates french he can drop it and study an soft option.
my dd is in yr10 and will not get the ebac-but now feels a bit "cheated" as she wasnt given this option. she will have all qualifications but mfl for the ebac- I dont think the goverment have thought this through properly as some children will be given the ebac just because they happened to opt for the sujects the gov have now chosen- so before she has even finished school she feels she is disadvantaged!

OP posts:
Renniehorta · 18/02/2011 22:59

'Rennie
sorry but I tell the truth'
No not bilingual. The lucky ones who can achieve this have to be brought up with 2 languages.

Your first language(s) are stored in a different part of your brain from any subsequent languages learnt say after puberty. There will always be interference from mother tongue(s) after this. It can be in the form of accent and/or underlying syntax. I am sure everyone can think of talented linguists but there is always a trace of another language that gives it away. So however gifted, 2 months in Italy as an adult cannot make you bilingual.

So best to lay a foundation when you are young. The younger the better.

Quattrocento · 18/02/2011 22:39

I do think that not doing a MFL could end up disadvantaging children when it comes to university admission.

I'm a bit nervous about this. DD is otherwise bright, really very bright, but decided from Y7 that she can't do modern languages and therefore doesn't. I've had to teach her French myself. Flipping nightmare (for both parties).

chopchopbusybusy · 18/02/2011 22:35

At DDs school taking a MFL is compulsory. In exceptional circumstances it can be dropped but only with consultation with student, teacher and parents. They don't insist on history or geography though so many students won't get the E bacc. Nobody knows how relevant the E bacc might be in a few years time - universities are increasingly looking at GCSE choices. I do think the E bacc does give a sensible mix of education and still allows a bit of choice for subjects just for enjoyment.

TalkinPeace2 · 18/02/2011 22:21

Rennie
sorry but I tell the truth
(and I do not even like my step sister or approve of her career choices)
she took what seemed to be stupid job in Rome
but because she was willing and able, trust me, she was fitting in completely within a couple of months and fighting local promotions before the end.

Language at school - I UTTERLY agree about early exposure but if it is unwilling then you are just pissing in the wind.
BUT 3 years of primary language sets the circuits ready for later use...

Renniehorta · 18/02/2011 20:59

'She was bilingual Italian - having never taken a class in it - within two months.'
Nonsense

As for GCSE not making you fluent. I don't recall anyone saying it did. However with language learning you have to start somewhere and that is thw start that students are offered.

Anyone who has been to an adult language class and seen the difference between those who have learnt a language before (any language it does not matter) as compared to those who have n't will appreciate the value of learning a language at school.

I'm afraid that you may not like it but your dcs are going to have to complete globally. Why disadvantage them?

TalkinPeace2 · 18/02/2011 14:51

The best way to learn a language for business is the way my sister did.
Get a job in the country and NOT hang around with the ex pats
She was bilingual Italian - having never taken a class in it - within two months.

For now, concentrate on enjoying learning for its own sake.

JaneyPal · 18/02/2011 14:43

Renniehorta - sorry you are talking utter nonsense.

If you think being forced to study an MFL and coming out with a poor grade is going to suddenly equip you for taking on the Chinese, you are living in a different world.

68's DS should study what interests him and what he is good at - that will put him in the right place in the big bad world.

The Chinese, Indian, E European etc students will beat our children hands down 99% of the time in the languauge game - they learn English earlier, much better and have TV and the internet which is predominantly in English.

Having a C grade in French is like 'p&ssing in the wind' as DH would say!

If languages are a child's passion then wonderful, if not, bin it.

verybored · 18/02/2011 09:10

I'd rather they were happy than competetive TBH. Having a FRench GCSE doesn't mean you can actually speak French, and evryone knows these. I, along with the vast majority of my friends have good GCSE passes in at least one foreign language. Only one can actually speak it to a useful standard. I would be very surprised if universities did not know this.

I don't think hating a subject makes you a wimp. DS is actually quite good at French and we have been told he would pass. But he detests it, is doing other good subjects, so I really can't see the point tbh.

Renniehorta · 17/02/2011 22:24

Your ds will be disadvantged by not doing an MFL. To be competitive in the job marhet you have to compete with Chinese, Russians E Europeans with great qualifications, work ethic and several languages.

Support them to lnuckle down, learn their irregular verbs and stop being wimps. Otherwise that are n't going to be competitive.

TalkinPeace2 · 17/02/2011 21:30

The first link : I put Ebacc into the search engine on the Russell Group website - and the result was : no results Smile

herbietea · 17/02/2011 20:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

BeenBeta · 17/02/2011 20:58

summer68 - has your DS's school told him he needs ebac?

If so, I strongly suspect it is for their benefit in the league tables next year and not his benefit.

Ignore them.

Ormirian · 17/02/2011 20:53

So glad to read this. DS1 is makng his choices now and the options in his school pits German against Music. He doesn't like German and loves music but I was trying to convince him to stick with the German. It hasn't worked! Currently he is intending to look for an apprenticeship in engineering so university isn't an issue - but I didn't want him to close down his choices so early.

verybored · 17/02/2011 20:52

soryy x posts talkinpeace, it was the other lonks, not the one you just posted!

verybored · 17/02/2011 20:49

I know one was Manchester. TBH honest I can't remember the others. WE decided that it had to be DS's choice. WE told him it may be important and gave him all the info we had.

I can't read the link either!

TalkinPeace2 · 17/02/2011 20:47

try this one...
www.russellgroup.ac.uk/russell-groups-policies/
first arrow entitled "informed choices"

You don't "NEED" a language.
The current Education minister retrospectively changed the 2010 league tables.
The 2011 ones will be different again,
and if the government changes they will rip it up and start again.
Ebacc is politics not education

LynetteScavo · 17/02/2011 20:35

Thank link isn't working for me.

I'm having a similar dilemma with DS(although he in Y7 so I have lots more time!)He is only doing Spanish atm and hating it. If he needs a language I'm going to have to get a tutor and spend some time in Spain....so what does the link say?