Was going private worth the money?

"no badly behaved, out of control children at private schools"

Oh, the naivety!

I taught at 3 schools in my year as a student, one of which was private and the worst classes I encountered were definitely at the selective private school - the misbehaviour was of a much more manipulative and imaginative nature than anything I had encountered in the state schools, which made it much harder to clamp down on.

While there, I was also told about the case of another independent school who on Muck Up Day the previous year had had their computer suite trashed by senior pupils.

Interesting to see that many people dwell on how the state schools measure up to the private ones, what about considering things from the other way round?

One of the pastoral care staff at the private school I was placed at claimed that their job was different from what they would be doing at a state school because 'obviously we don't have the same issues here'.

Because 'obviously', if you earn enough to pay private school fees, then you would never abuse your children.

And as far as I was aware, the best predictor of academic success has always been parental income anyway, regardless of private or state education.

there are very bad private schools and there are very bad state schools

there are very good private schools and there are very good state schools.

you can find any example to fit these descriptions

no point in trying to counter argue each other.

this discussion is very tiring.

Don't know.

I went to a private school. So did DB. We've both done OK after a fashion (i'm 45 and he's 51) but it's impossible to tell how we would have done if we'd gone to state schools.

Might be telling that we are both sending our DC to state schools.

My DCs are still in early stages of private education so I'm not 'looking back' on it yet.

However, I can already say 'yes' because, regardless of how they turn out or how successful they are, I will know on my death bed that I did what I felt was best for my children at the time and within the resources and opportunities available to me.

My favourite sweeping generalization is the "no badly behaved, out of control children at private schools"

A friend's child is being badly bullied at a well known London Prep = he is regularly called a "Nazi Jew Killer" because he has a German last name.

Another friend's child is on his last warning for drunkenness at a very famous public school. He's 14.

I went to a private school, and my siblings did not. One of my siblings is probably more academically able than me, the other v clever but not academically inclined. We all have degrees, one sibling has a doctorate. The grammar school sibling earns a lot more than me.

I wish I had gone to the grammar (I did have a place, but my parents took the decision not to move me from the school where I was in Prep). I was at a very academic selective and sought after school within it's region. But I never felt I was doing anything on my own terms, I felt as if I had been given a bit of a leg up, and was a bit of a cheat. I worked quite hard, got good results, but the whole experience made me uncomfortable.

And although I had not led a sheltered life I was SO naive about 'real life' when I went to University, because of the friends I had made at school.

My parents were not rich, and I strongly wish they had saved their money and sent me to the grammar. But I don't tell them that.

I am pushing my children to do their best academically, but at a state school.

no badly behaved out of control children
ROTFLMAO
wait till Secondary. The only reason a gang of us were not expelled was because they wanted the money. Hence why the fact that loads of us had stopped going to lessons was not reported to parents.
They did make us paint over the prep room walls after we covered them with offensive graffitti. But there were no sanctions for SOAKING the HT with water pistols. Or filling DHTs car with inflated condoms.
Ah, the joy of private school!

It really does depend on the school - we have looked at some awful private schools. My dd was moved from a state school (supposedly rated good with outstanding features) to an independent selective girls school in year 3. She has dyslexia, dyspraxia and dysgraphia.

What we gained was - a quieter environment, no badly behaved out of control children, instrument lessons, proper homework, proper targets, proper games and team sports, extra-curricular activities galore, drama productions, better use of IT, better facilities, swimming lessons weekly rather than once a year for six weeks, access to her teacher, the head or the additional support tutor, usually on the same day whenever we encounter a problem and, most important of all, a happy confident daughter.

What we lost was local friends. Her new school is 12 miles away and she is on a coach at 8am and gets home at 4.45. We also lost the battle we would have had to get any of the support she would need to deal with her learning needs in the state sector. The state sector doesn't work for children with mild dyslexia. You only get extra help if you are very disabled or very disturbed. Failing to reach your potential is simply not enough to get help.

I know there are outstanding state schools. There just aren't enough of them.

I said above I went to a private girls school in London. They kept taking my parents cash when I stopped attending lessons.
My A level grades were a HORRENDOUS shock to my parents. Not to me or my teachers, or the 17 out of 42 of my year who had to retake.

So I went to a very well known Crammer.
I met kids from : Eton, Harrow, Haileybury, Clifton, Oundle, Charterhouse, Benenden, St Pauls, Frances Holland, Westminster, City of London, Wycombe Abbey and International schools from around the world.
All had failed (meaning D's or below). After a year there we ALL passed.
The crammer added VAT to their fees.
And the lot of us were barred from every pub in the area for YEARS.

Just what parents pay for!!
And interestingly, NONE of us show the crammer in out Friends reunited, Facebook or Linkedin profiles. Funny that.

Private can be great, but it can be an expensive learning process for the parents too.

Honestly, there's always such a lot of rubbish on these threads, including the worse sort of stereotyping of both private and state school pupils. Stereotypes I particularly dislike are: "Private school children are spoon fed and can't cope at university" and "Private school children have loads more confidence than state school children". What a load of tosh.

Private education doesn't always give children confidence. I've met a few adults who - having done badly at private schools - were very unhappy people. They were especially uncomfortable around comp. educated Cambridge students.

Sort of, 'my parents spent £100,000 on my education and these people with their free education are so much cleverer than me'.

Confidence is also about personality (and upbringing). I have two very clever parents. One is utterly unconfident and suffers from poor self-esteem and the other is happy and confident.

If you are the former, your life becomes more limited but if you are the latter, you are more successful.

Yes confidence comes from parents

People who are lacking in confidence who went to state schools often assume it comes from the school but they are wrong!

Surely confidence comes mainly from parents and what they instill?

If public school children have more self confidence I would think it because (unless you have family money) most people sending children to public school are confident/successful - and have probably been well parented to get that far and will therefore parent well.

At my private school there were underconfident people too - often due to parental issues. Ditto my brother's school.

I went to one of the most academic girls schools in the country followed by 6th form at a very expensive public school.

I think it was a waste of money and won't be sending my child to private schools. The highest achievers amongst my cousins went to state schools and 2 of them didn't even get anything much in the way of exams - one of these is an internet company owning multimillionaire and one a city analyst. I hated my girls school even though I was very academic.

Private schools close doors as well as opening doors - if you haven't been to one it is hard to reaise this.

Blimey seeker are you making notes?

TBF, I do have extraordinarily mixed up feelings about money and happiness.

I come from a very poor background and it is very hard to be happy in those circumstances. Your whole life is utilitarian.

And I do look at this country and think that an education is extraordinarily expensive, houses prices are stupidly high. Then there's the issue of the dismantling of the state. As Peachy often says, you'd better be rich or healthy.

All these things make me think that in order not to be unhappy, to have independence and freedom, you need a certain amount of money.
And the amount you need gets bigger all the time.

I wish we could return to the time when I left uni without any debts and bought my first flat for a song. But we can't...

So I don't think it at all unwise of young people to use their education to obtain a job that will give them a life of freedom.

That doesn't mean at all that I think it's just a means to an end. Quite the contrary.

castles It's the reasons I'd send my DC private if I could afford it, with the refinement of saying not that I don't want my DCs mixing with poor DCs, but I'd like the assurance that user-pays seriously improves the discipline and commitment in a classroom!

Before you flame me further, the argument works one way only: Amongst the cross section of DCs in a failing comp on a sink estate there could well be school-ready, motivated, well-behaved DCs (lord help them).

At a fee paying school the overwhelming majority, a critical mass of the DCs will be school-ready, motivated, well-behaved. And the school can kick out those who aren't.

erebus,

I think your last post is very shallow and a sweeping generalisation. Views like this do not help anyone.

Loads of people spend money in very different ways

seeker, tbh, I'd far rather more private choosing parents said outright' We've gone private so Hortensia will get higher grades than her natural intellect would dictate/so she doesn't have to mix with nasty poor children/so her grades will buy her a place in a 'better' university which will ease her path into a better paying job so she, in turn, can send her DCs private'.

It'd be a whole lot more honest!

As for 'Who gets the best jobs'- the point may have been missed that it wasn't about 'going private', it was about going 'major public'.

The local private may possibly have better facilities, smaller classes, etc, but to compare that with the networking opportunities and rubbing shoulders with the DC- aw, OK, sons of the world's rich and powerful- well, different league.

Odd. On at lease 2 threads recentlyy you've mentioned well paid jobs as a primary motivation factor.

For sure, Seeker.
But I've never seen it as one of my main motivating factors either.

For me, I chose it because I utterly fell in love with the place. And it's my closest school (admittedly a lazy/convenience reason).
I thought nothing of A level grades or RG universities or contacts. MY DC were three, I hadn't given any of that stuff a nano-thought.

However, if one of the happy biproducts was 'a pathway' by which I'm assuming you mean good grades, contacts etc, I would be lying if I said I would be sorry.

Nobody can possibly answer your question - unless they've eudated the same child twice!

Litchick - surely looking on education as a pathway to a well paid job is utilitarian in the extreme!

My son went to the nursery attached to a selective prep school. Our intention was to move him at Reception age so he could go to a local state school. When the time came, we couldn't do it. Tbh, we looked at the progress he had made then and we really couldnt move him, but I suppose we were in a position to pay the fees. At age 3, his PE teacher told us that he saw 'athlete in him' and since then, they have done everything they can to support him. He is only 7 but they have arranged him to join the local Premiership academy. He is a bright kid and he does well in his academics, but I am so grateful that he is also exposed to resources that support his sporting interests.

We live in Bucks and are in catchment for 3 grammar schools but I would still want him to go to a Indie.

Its not all academics at Indies.

From my limited experience, I would say that anyone embarking on a certain choice of education should bear in mind that it is not an investment on grades.

Kids can not do so well in exams for being ill/having a bad month/year/and all sorts of other reasons. I would say that, although exam results are important, the education that an establishment provides is what makes all the difference.

The expectations set by families and schools are also key, as I think that children respond to what is expected of them and this is what gives them confidence - I believe.

However, my children are still young so who knows whether I will change my mind in a few years' time!!!