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GCSE 21st Century Science

33 replies

thelibster · 01/02/2011 02:06

My DD2 (year 11) is currently at a specialist music school but has made the decision to leave at the end of this year and come home to a local state school for sixth form, as she wants to do medicine at university. I was surprised and very disappointed to learn from the head of biology at a local secondary school that the 21st Century Science course she is following at her current school is not adequate preparation for A levels. She thought that she was a good science student (she is predicted A/A* in all three and has scored 100% in two of the six modules already taken) but now self-doubt is creeping in. Any Science teachers out there with any advice please?

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mitochondria · 03/02/2011 21:57

Thelibster - if she's going to get A*s she should be OK, she's clearly bright enough to cope with the gap.
There will be a gap, though.

21st century science and similar were brought in to be "about how science works" - without, in my opinion, teaching enough actual science.
I think it's OK for those who are not intending to take science any further, but not ideal for those who are.

Original poster
thelibster · 01/02/2011 19:29

Thank you snorkie, panic beginning to subside slightly. Spoke to the head of Science at new school today who, it turns out, actually took DD for Chemistry on her "trial day". He said they did an experiment to see what their lab skills were like and he remembered her and said he was impressed with her approach. He said she was methodical and very thorough and asked him a couple of challenging questions during the course of the lesson. He says, not to worry, she'll be fine. More institutional flannel maybe? Hmm

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snorkie · 01/02/2011 18:42

A teacher friend whose dc did this 21C GCSE course thought it led into the OCR A level science syllabuses very well. Both her dc did very well at A level, so it must have worked for them, but I imagine the success or not of the transition is largely down to the quality of the teaching.

Original poster
thelibster · 01/02/2011 13:55

Thank you, crazymum, I appreciate your input. Smile

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crazymum53 · 01/02/2011 13:52

As a Chemistry teacher I would say that TRIPLE Science is fine for A level Chemistry as well. Sometimes there are slight difficulties on changing school (especially if this also means changing exam boards) but the first AS Chemistry module is fairly standard and this should not be a problem.

dippingbackin · 01/02/2011 12:17

You are welcome. The 21st Century Course gets a hard time and if you have very able children I can see why. However for the majority of students I teach who are less able but often genuinely interested in Science it is a great way of getting at least one pass at GCSE.

The whole course is being re-jigged this September so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Original poster
thelibster · 01/02/2011 12:13

Thank you dippingbackin, she is doing the Triple Science and that is very comforting news. Smile

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dippingbackin · 01/02/2011 12:08

Hi...

I am a Biology teacher at an inner London school. If your DD is doing Triple Science then she is more than adequately prepared for AS Biology. It is a hard course whether you have done Double or Triple Science, however the demands of the Triple are such that she should be better prepared than some.

If she is doing Double Award and has done the Additional course then she will be fine, however if her school has made her do the Applied course then she will not be able to do AS Biology as this does not cover the theory needed.

Apologies if this has been covered above - not had time to read all posts.

Original poster
thelibster · 01/02/2011 12:00

webwiz I think you're right, she's just going to have to work hard over the holidays and the Livescience site seems excellent for Chemistry but doesn't seem to do Biology so I'll have to get some guidance on that and get the CGP guides too. She has managed to get some voluntary work experience over the holidays at a local children's hospice (she already knows that she wants to go into paediatrics) so she's going to have a busy summer! Wink

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webwiz · 01/02/2011 11:48

If she was in year 9 it would be worth considering the debates but its a bit late at this stage. I'd just go for a bit of extra work at the start to cover any gaps and that really should be enough.

Original poster
thelibster · 01/02/2011 11:43

Talkinpeace interesting, yes, but not really much clearer I'm afraid. The world seems to be divided into two camps; "it's ok, she should be able to manage A level with a bit of extra hard work", and, "it's rubbish, she'll struggle to catch up". Problem is, I'm finding people on both sides who seem, to me at any rate though I'm no scientist, to have equal levels of experience and qualifications. 'Tis a minefield! Confused

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Talkinpeace · 01/02/2011 11:24

Interesting views on the Science syllabus here
community.tes.co.uk/forums/p/26113/3295904.aspx#3295904

Relaxmum · 01/02/2011 11:17

I am not Maths teacher but DS1, has done Maths and further Maths, and currently he is doing Maths degree in Russell group Uni. Maths unlike other subjects the jump is gradual( if A/A* GCSE is achieved), both DCs are/were said C1 is a step up GCSE and as well as C2. the new FP1(further Maths 1) is made a little bit easier so that it can be taken along side AS level.I think the main hurdle in A level Maths( according to DS1) is Differntiation and some other new concepts not covered in GCSE. I think your DD will have advantage again which will give her more time to focus on the sciences!

Original poster
thelibster · 01/02/2011 11:16

Well, that's a relief! I think she is well motivated and bright enough to catch up on the Chemistry and Biology, given the right guidance, but the thought that she might be behind in 4 out of her 5 A level subjects was a bit daunting! webwiz, I can't find the board on the website but have put in a call to the head of science and he will, apparently 'phone me back in his lunch break.

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Talkinpeace · 01/02/2011 11:09

Libster : RELAX : IGCSE Maths is fine.

webwiz · 01/02/2011 11:09

I would have thought the IGCSE was a better preparation for Maths than the GSCE. I think the modular Maths GCSE is poor preparation for A level so DCs school do the linear course.

DD2 does Maths and Further Maths at A level and there was less of a step up for her between GCSE and A level than in Chemistry and History but she is a good mathematician (has places to do Maths at uni).

Are the exam boards not in the prospectus?

Original poster
thelibster · 01/02/2011 10:59

Thanks Relaxmum, I am just trying to find out which board the institution she will, hopefully, be joining in September does before I "cough up" for the Livescience chemistry course. Not much help when it comes to Biology though, anyone any ideas? She's not doing Physics for A level but Maths and Further Maths instead. She is doing the IGCSE for Maths which, again, we were told would be better preparation for A level than the GCSE! I know that she has studied some areas of Maths that are not covered in the GCSE such as Differentiation, but is this a "watered down" qualification as well? Maths teachers?

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webwiz · 01/02/2011 10:55

I think the teaching of science at GCSE level has been in turmoil over the last few years. Just from personal experience DD1(19) did Edexcel double award at GCSE, DD2(17) did OCR 21st century science double award and DS1(14) will do the OCR triple - a ridiculous amount of change in such a short time.

I would focus on making sure your DD does as well as possible in her GCSEs and then use the long summer holiday to do a bit of preparation work. DD2 likes the CGP guides and finds them very accessible, science A levels normally involve January module exams that are timetabled very near to each other so if she can find out whats in the first module for each (it will be on the exam board website) and do some preparation she'll actually find herself ahead.

Relaxmum · 01/02/2011 10:47

again pls don't worry too much, it is true she will find the jump higher than others done triple science. But it will make here to work hard from the start and will catch up in a little time. the experience of hard work and furstration will be good preparation to her medical course in the future. Don't panic or she will think she cann't do it. Now just focus on GCSE. And have a good summer rest. You cann't make her worry for A level now when she hasn't even done GCSE.

Original poster
thelibster · 01/02/2011 10:45

Thanks for that crumb of comfort webwiz. I was on another thread talking about advice from schools on GCSE options and now am even more of the opinion that they're often just not worth listening to. We were "sold" the idea of 21st century science on the basis that arts minded students could just do one or two sciences and the more scientifically inclined could follow the triple award and be as well prepared for A level as anyone following the more traditional courses. Added to the fact that the Cambridge name carries a lot of weight and that it is endorsed by York University, whose Medical degree is, apparently, well regarded, albeit relatively new and here we are, practically up a gum tree! GRRRRRRR!

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webwiz · 01/02/2011 10:33

thelibster DD2's friend got AAAA for AS levels (Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Maths)and has offers from medical schools after taking the 21st century science double award GCSEs. I don't think it is a good preparation for A levels but it doesn't mean all is lost and your DD can't do very well.

If she knows what exam board the new school use for science A levels then she look at the relevant bits in the CGP revision guides.

Original poster
thelibster · 01/02/2011 10:29

Webwiz DD2 is doing the triple science option but, from what others are saying, even that isn't adequate preparation for A level! Am bloody cross now, duped by a school again!!

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Talkinpeace · 01/02/2011 10:28

thelibster
DH was on the Politics Show on TV when this syllabus was introduced, trying to explain that inventing a 'cuddly' science syllabus would just confuse students as their less scientifically minded teachers would not realise that learning "about" science is NOT the same thing as "learning" science.
How it impacts on society and how it is perceived is diddly squat use when you have a person or animal bleeding out in front of you.
Its an intersting course for the Arts minded so that they are not as scientifically illiterate as Chris Monckton, but for anybody who wants to "do" science its about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Relaxmum has clearly been through this - their link is as good as any I can find.

Original poster
thelibster · 01/02/2011 10:26

Sorry, cross-posted with Relaxmum, thank you so much for the heads up on Livescience. Will investigate now!

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webwiz · 01/02/2011 10:26

I think the problem will be if everyone else has done triple science and your DD hasn't then the starting point for the A level will be wrong for her.

DD2(year 13) has done A level chemistry following on from the 21st century science and hasn't had any problems (is on course for an A) but she has stayed on at her own schools sixth form and so the teaching assumed the double GCSE and followed on from there.

I do think the triple science is a better preparation though and if she can do the extra modules it will help the step up. In DD2's school year 12 and below will have the triple now and they have made it a requirement for science A levels.

Not very helpful of the new teacher thoughHmm