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Original poster

Btec science - URGENT HELP PLEASE!!

59 replies

verybored · 06/01/2011 18:31

DS 1 is in year 9. Loves his science and has always hoped to do it at A level and then something science related at uni. He has come home from school today saying that he has been told they are only doind BTEC science and not GCSE.

The way his school work is they are banded into three bands and you are in this band for every subject, so you cannot be in top for English and middle for maths if that makes sense.

DS1 is in middle band and I have always been told he is at the top of that band and is only not in top band due to his attitude - which has improved massively since the beginning of year 9.

So today he has come home and told me that his band is only doing BTEC in Science. Now am I right in thinking this is not a good thing for him. I will be ringing his head of year first thing tomorrow and firstly checking the facts, then secondly asking for him to be moved up to top band, where they are apparently doing GCSE. But I'm pretty sure I will be fed the' they are GCSE equivalnets and just as good etc etc' line

If they refuse, can I do anything? I am absolutely fuming! This is his best subject, he's bloddy good at it and he's going to be lumbered with a BTEC Sad

OP posts:
Original poster
verybored · 07/01/2011 10:21

Thank you. I have to say I have been impressed with the school so far when we have had other problems, and also them acting quickly when we discovered a problem with his work in year 8. However, the concern is that the middle band students are left to get on with it. We were not contacted about the state of his work last year and only found out by accident. But when we went to parents evening all the teachers were concerned, yet no one had done anything.

Thankfully, i'm not an all guns blazingtype of person, but unfortunately I do find it hard to get my point across strongly.

The replies on here though have convinced me that I am right on this, which has given me a lot more confidence to keep going with this if necessary.

I'm hoping someone, somehwre has got this wrong, but I know it's unlikely Sad

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GiddyPickle · 07/01/2011 10:18

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GiddyPickle · 07/01/2011 10:16

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Original poster
verybored · 07/01/2011 10:14

The reason he slowed in year 8 is because he did feck all in all subjects. We got onto the school when we uncovered it and got him put on report. He has now changed his attitude massively, which makes this decision even worse for him because he has made the changes as he wants a good job, probably in science.

I'm just hoping we can get the science teacher on side. Thanks for your reply Giddy, it's very helpful.

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GiddyPickle · 07/01/2011 10:11

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Original poster
verybored · 07/01/2011 09:11

Head of year knows nothing about it so the science teacher is hopefully going to call me.

I have had a look through his reports. He got a 5C at the end of year 6, 6C at the end of year 7 and 6B at the end of year 8. We have not had any grades so far this term which is not in line for what we have had the last 2 years.

I have been told today by the head of year that to move up a band they have to be nomitaed by a teacher in EVERY subject to go up. He's terrible at French so I don't think he stands a chance at going up. Which is ridiculous as he won't even be taking the GCSE option I don't think, so his levels are being decided by an unrelated subject that he won't be taking.

Can anyone tell me if his levels are ok for his year? If he's below what is expected, i'd like to know before I make a fool of myself to the school. All they talk about is what is expected for him, but sometimes it helps to know where this fits within the year group!

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mummytime · 07/01/2011 06:46

Most school I know the top groups are doing three separate sciences. Most of the other groups are doing double and only those who will not get Cs are doing BTEC or OCR (which is a good course for them).
In your shoes I would be investigating other schools that he could go to. BTEC is fine for some technician grade science jobs, but the only A'level it reasonably leads on to is Applied Science which is okay as a fourth A'level or for some technical science degrees.

Wasn't there a standard that all pupils with a level 6 should have the chance to study for three separate science A'levels?

Good luck?

TheFarSide · 07/01/2011 00:07

Okey dokey - thanks!

TheFallenMadonna · 06/01/2011 23:58

Oh yes, they did, but the white paper has taken away the league table equivalence. It remains to be seen whether any other equivalence will be retained. We are in limbo.

TheFarSide · 06/01/2011 23:53

FallenMadonna, I thought the EBacc was just an additional measure and other measures of performance will still stand for the time being, especially as this is a very new development and state schools are up in arms about what is and isn't included in the EBac.

To date, though, is it not generally accepted that schools have used vocational subjects like the old GNVQ (and BTECs) to boost their position in the league tables?

TheFallenMadonna · 06/01/2011 23:25

It's a level where I would put the student in for GCSE. It's hard to say whether it is good for your DS because I don't know what he should be getting. Ignore percentages - they depend entirely on the test. Always look at the level.

I'll repeat for TheFarSide that for this year group, BTEC will absolutely NOT improve the school's position in the league tables. In fact, that's what surprises me about this. It is the English Bacc on which schools will be judged now, and that means GCSE in Science.

TheFarSide · 06/01/2011 22:57

I've come across this problem in local secondary schools in East London - able year 9 kids who are considering careers where GCSE science is crucial somehow ending up on BTEC courses.

We've had a couple of dramas where kids have not been allowed to do A level science subjects with a BTEC science at GCSE level.

It's totally outrageous and in my experience is absolutely to do with clocking up extra passes to improve league table rankings.

Schools must NOT be allowed to f**k with students' futures to suit their own needs.

Make an ENORMOUS fuss! If possible/appropriate, enlist the help of the local careers/connexions service or the local education authority.

Original poster
verybored · 06/01/2011 22:52

He is definite the teacher said they are doing BTEC but some of the top band are doing GCSE, but not all the top band.

Can I ask is level 6 ok for this point in year 9? He got 82% of the test right, no revision and he did say they hadn't covered all the subjects in the paper (but I take this with a pinch of salt!) Levels mean nothing to me at all. the precentage sounds good, but not if it's a really easy test!

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TheFallenMadonna · 06/01/2011 22:48

Hmm. You need to speak to the teacher in the first instance I think, and see if she said that he was definitely doing BTEC. And then if so, speak to the Head of Science. I am sorting out next year's groups now, and I have no-one getting a level 6 now in a BTEC group. I know other school do things differently, and I know that some schools in fact ONLY do BTEC and push their better students to get distinctions. BUT until the Wolf report comes out, BTEC is in a bit of a limbo, and I would (and am) going with GCSE for those who could do OK in that.

Original poster
verybored · 06/01/2011 22:45

able

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Original poster
verybored · 06/01/2011 22:44

Just got a level 6 in a sats paper but that was the highest level you can get on that paper. He was predicted level 6 for end of year 9 but was achieving it by the end of year 8. I don't know if thats his prediction, or what he should be ale to get.

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TheFallenMadonna · 06/01/2011 22:39

What level is he working at?

Original poster
verybored · 06/01/2011 22:33

It's a pretty big school, almost 300 in the year group so I can't imagine it's a problem as there must ne lots at the same level. Will have to see what the school say in the morning. Thanks for your help.

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TheFallenMadonna · 06/01/2011 22:22

Probably - it would be our default choice IYSWIM.

But then, we do have to take into account everything we know about the student, and we do have to take into account class sizes too. Sadly, that is going to be a factor. It can't not be.

Original poster
verybored · 06/01/2011 20:53

They weren't official targets, they were just comments to do with the fact that he's bright but lazy. Is it a GCSE target i'm asking for, and if it's C or higher he should be doing GCSE, is that right?

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TheFallenMadonna · 06/01/2011 20:49

His target grade won't be his predicted grade - they are different things. Target grades are calculated on a number of things, none of which are motivation or recent work rate.

TheFallenMadonna · 06/01/2011 20:47

We are still going to do BTEC with some of our students, because we think it is a better course for them. But not with any student who could get a C or higher at GCSE. You do need to ask about target grades - and I mean specific target grades. Ask them about FFT targets!

There is always the problem that we have to group students into classes, so we couldn't for example have 40 students doing GCSE and 15 doing BTEC, because we would only be able to have two classes on those numbers. It's a bit awkward when you are running completely different courses in the same subject.

Original poster
verybored · 06/01/2011 20:31

From the way DS told it, I have the impressio that the teacher doesn't like it and was actually telling the students so they would tell their parents before the options meeting we have in 2 weeks, where apparently it will all be announced. DS and his friends didn't realise this at the time but i'm pretty sure the teacher is not happy.

We were told last year that if he did no work, he would scrape C's - he's a lazy sod and last year was coasting majorly. This year he's puleed his socks up so I'm not sure what his predicted grade would be.

I didn't realie it wouldn't count towards league tables - I am even more baffled as to why they are making the mojority of the year take BTEC. It vertainly wasn't like this last year as I looked at the options book on line and all apart from a few in the bottom band took GCSE.

I feel sick about it TBH. It seems to be one problem after another with schools, and these are meant to be fairly good schools.

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PatTheHammer · 06/01/2011 20:26

Ex-posts Fallen Madonna!

PatTheHammer · 06/01/2011 20:24

You can also mention that BTEC Science is not allowed to be included in the new 'English bacculareate' that the government are rolling out. A reason our school is not even bothering to start the BTEC course as they are definitely now NOT equivalent as they don't count in this whereas GCSE Sciences (excpet Applied Science) do.