angered by tuition for grammar school 11+

At the risk of sounding arse-licky, I agree with every word you say seeker.

Why do these threads - and the faith school ones, and the private school ones - end up so personalised and touchy, with people saying, "Why are you having a go at me for just doing my best for my child?" I understand anyone doing what they have to do for their child - if I lived in an area with grim schools, and could afford private education, I'd not rule out going that route myself - but it wouldn't absolve me of my responsibility to critique the entire system. I moved house to get my child into a halfway decent school. I'm not proud of it, not ashamed of it either, but it sickens me that I had this option and so many others do not. Just because my child is ok doesn't let me off having a social conscience and a moral responsibility.

Because there are no comprehensive schools in this area. Kids pass the 11÷ and go to the grammar schools, fail and go to high schools. Yo can't have a comprehensive school if the "top" 25% have been creamed off to be educated seperately.

What made you decide to go for the grammar over the comp, just out of interest?

My dd's brammar school has 1400 pupils!

Are they? I only really know about the one that we are in the catchment for, and it's got 400 ish pupils. The fact that the comp has over 1000 is one of the things that scares me tbh. I was lucky enough that my parents could afford to send me private and the school had 200, which is probably why I find the local school a daunting prospect! Otherwise, I'm more than happy for my two to go there, it has a good reputation thankfully.

But a lot of grammar schools are that big - and bigger!

I see what you're saying seeker, but that would mean huge schools, and some children simply won't thrive in an environment that large. And I don't believe it's all about academic education, some children need strong pastoral care from their schools, simply because they spend so much time there and do so much growing up there, and I just don't think that can be achieved in a school with 800 - 1000+ pupils.

No, the oly way to make it completely fair is for there to be proper comprehensive schools open to all with proper streaming so that children get education at the level they need.

The only way I can see that would becompletely fair, is to create more grammar schools.

The school we applied for openly states on it's website that they expect more children to be deemed suitable for a place than they can offer places to. That just seems so wrong. It's no wonder that parents resort to tutoring. They are not being coached to pass the exam, I expect many of them could manage that without additional help. They are tutoring to try and ensure their child scores way over and above the pass mark, because that is the only hope they have of getting a place.

Ds1, who has AS, is very bright, and I truly believe that the grammar school will be the right environment for him. He could achieve just as much academically in the top sets at the local comp, but I want him to go to the grammar because of everything else it will offer him. Incidentaly, I don't think it will be the right environment for ds2, even though he is bright as well.
I do believe that tutoring makes a huge difference to the scores children can achieve, it teaches them how to pass the exam, not how to answer questions correctly. What hope have I got of being able to teach my child using a couple of books from WH Smith compared to a professional. The cost of the books would put alot of very attentive parents off anyway at £10 a book. That's £30 just to buy one for each of the subjects, and only one practice paper included in each.

And of course prep schools tutor! Anyone who thinks otherwise is very naieve. They want their pupils to get into selective independant schools or grammar schools, being able to say that a high percentage of their pupils get sought after secondary places is one of their biggest selling points. I went to a private primary, and even back then (20+ years ago)those of us that were taking exams for selective schools got extra attention in Maths and English lessons, go given different work and were introduced to NVR/VR when we'd never heard of it until that point.

Quattro, the three sage example you gave didn't make sense. Almost every noun can be made into an adjective or a verb; it doesn't change the meaning or root of the noun. The meaning remains the same.
So in your example, there are only two meanings to the word sage.

But that's the point! It shouldn't be about the parents - it should be about the child. Or this whole thing about giving children a step up out of advantage is complete bollocks. It's outrageous that a clever child with feckless parents has no chance of a grammar school education. I can't understand why everyone can;t see that - to me it isn't even a matter for debate.

see I was thinking that the 'wise' meaning was really only one meaning (albeit once in nominal & once in adjectival form). I was wondering if there was really a third wholly separate meaning.

Go outside ?

An online dictinary gives 6 meanings for the word sage, whereas the OED (shorter) only gives 5 ...

Anyhow still reckon an 11 YO should be able to come up with 3.

Nope. Never said that. I am however convinced that state education is fairly inadequate and fails many of its pupils. If you want to pick a fight, shall we go outside? More edifying, like.

Oh I'm sorry, I was sure that was the point you were making. You seem so convinced she could not possibly make do with an ordinary education.

Not particularly

Isn't she clever

Sorry, missed that post

Just asked DD how many meanings there were for the word sage. The response came back three - instantly.

A noun meaning a herb
An adjective meaning wise
A noun meaning a wise person

DD is 12.

There are probably more though aren't there? I thought there was some specific attribution to the 'third meaning' of sage.

Kind of like the third way.

QC: a propos is seeker's post of 23-Dec-10 23:15:38

The problem is not that some parents spend money on tuition, it is that many maintained primary schools fail to prepare their pupils adequately for secondary education, and this becomes apparent when pupils fall short on skills like reading the question and checking your answers (which tutors spend a lot of time emphasising).

The third meaning of sage sounds like hippy dippy stuff. Or mutant ninja stuff.

Either way, too elliptical for me.

What's the third meaning of sage?