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state school child got into Eton

158 replies

kris123 · 16/12/2010 16:05

Dear Mums,

Our son was accepted into Eton, and we are indeed very happy, but as always there are now new concerns. He is currently attending a state school, and is due to finishing this year at year 6, whereas Eton only starts in year 9. This means that we have two years "inbetween".

Please note that the offer to Eton, as all of them, is conditional on passing the common entrance exam , which I hear is not difficult, but still requires some work (especially as there are specific subjects like history and geography and latin to cover).

Our choices are:

  1. play it safe, send him to the local prep school waste 14k a year basically, and put him under totally not needed stress with kids fighting for 13+ intake. Most prep schools will take him as he will simply improve their statistics.

  2. send him to the grammar school, which our son will most probably get into (he did pass the test, but decisions due in March). Issue there for me is that they will not know the Independent Common Entrance System, and will not prepare him for it, and furthermore will not even know that he is leaving them at age of 13 to go to Eton. To add to this they do not teach Latin, one subject that is needed on Common Entrance Tests i think.

  3. send our child abroad for one year, to France or Germany to learn a new language, have some fun, ski, relax, and basically enjoy a year after the stress of last two months, learning to board etc. Then bring him back for year 8 to prep school and prepare him for the exam that is towards the end of the year.

Now, I am lost with this topic, but maybe someone can guide me, especially on feasibility of plan 2) and 3). You see we are very much pro state school system - grammar of course, and want our son to learn that there are grammar schools for smart kids and be proud of his years there.

Now my concerns are:

a) how difficult are these common entrance tests? can someone actually fail them if they are smart and do some work, or do you need a lot of work and prep for it like with the admissions process?

b) what is the level and type of work done at the grammar schools... is their program similar to prep schools so that this knowledge can be used for common entrance?

c) how risky would it be to take a child out of the UK education system for one year, and bring him back to the prep school and prepare for the common entrance tests in one year?

Thanks, happy but still concerned parent

OP posts:
kris123 · 20/12/2010 17:13

Propatria, I would imagine that this is not a rule, and it is designed with the aim of the boys who have been in the state system from the start, and not just for years 7-8. As you heard on this thread from other parents most other public schools have this process too.

I agree with you however that a lot of parents would love to send their children to prep schools for years 1-6, ideally get into grammar school, perhaps Eton too, and then move to state system for two years to save on fees and CE exam. Iustitia omnibus.

This is perhaps a reason why this is special cases only.

OP posts:
lazymumofteenagesons · 20/12/2010 17:11

Sorry hit the return key before I'd finished.

Unfortunately, the independent sector is just that - independent. They will however bend over backwards to let in exceptionally talented kids who have not prepared for CE. However, the rest who have the ability to get in via CE have to take that route. And, yes, this does make it extra difficult to move from state primary to 'public' school in one go.

lazymumofteenagesons · 20/12/2010 17:07

Why is this special test for state school boys not on the school website? what age do they expect them to take it, 11 or 13?

There was a TV programme about boys going for Harrow, I think, from state schools. They tried in year 5 and got funded at a prep school for years 6,7 and 8. This exam covered alot more than the NC.

I honestly think that once you are expected to self-fund then the only entry exam available is CE.

GoldFrakkincenseAndMyrrh · 20/12/2010 17:06

If the OP was looking at boarding then Hockerill is an entirely logical choice - state boarding, so lower fees, good facilities and a good enough academic reputation. Being swayed towards Eton is not necessarily inconsistent with that.

Btw I think your DDs deserve exactly the same chances as your DS wrt boarding and single sex education. I personally think girls benefit hugely from single sex education and if there's a family precedent of boarding they definitely should be able to try it too. To suggest otherwise is horrifically discriminatory. Thankfully girls typically switch at 11 so you won't have the prep school dilemma!

propatria · 20/12/2010 16:40

Just had a good look round mumsnet, only a couple of months ago you were very keen on Hockerill Anglo European school(whatever that is) with no mention of Eton,Harrow,Winchester etc,most peculiar,now suddenly-your son has got a place at Eton,youve looked at these other schools and rejected them and you no longer mention Hockerill,please tell us who at Eton told you about this special enterance exam.

kris123 · 20/12/2010 16:29

Lazymum, a separate test for state school kids is the fact, it is based on NC, not CE. Unless they want someone to fail it, it should be a standard process, nothing to do with Kings Scholars route. Of course being at the good state school will be key.

Caoimhe, yes only in March we will know of the grammar school place, but should this be not successful (St Olave's does not tell you if you passed the test till March I think), then the best route of action will be via a prep school and CE exam, one so many parents suggested.

11+ intake to the other 11- 18 private schools is hence not needed at this point, and morally wrong as someone suggested, as we would need to lie about our intent.

OP posts:
propatria · 20/12/2010 16:27

Still no name of the person who said your son could sit his own exam,oh well,thats a shame as Eton seems to have no knowledge of this exam at all,they only allow children not to sit CE under exceptional circumstances,cant really see your circumstances fit that description,I suppose we shall all have to draw our own conclusions, Love your description of Eton as a village,where all is peace and harmony compared to the terrifying metropolis of Winchester. I do hope you soon tell us who agreed this one off exam as I know a few parents who might well be interested in asking for a refund on prep school fees.
I shall certainly pass on the tip about reading the prospectus before the interview,Im amazed no has thought of that before,brilliant..

kris123 · 20/12/2010 16:10

Lastpudding:

I will respond, as you genuinely want to know, but I must state that mumsnet has proven to be very addictive, and I must step away from it to focus more on xmas etc. I know its bad, having obtained what I needed, but I need to focus on that grammar school place for the DS, and its time to start the work on the DDs too. Will revisit the site once a week.

Lastpudding, the answer for you:

The choice was very easy for us, as DS wanted it very much. He cried with happiness when he got the offer letter. He waited for it everyday for last two weeks expecting it in November, wondering why it is not coming, asking us if we hid it from him (we never would, but are certain some parents apply this tactic to boost confidence). It cannot get simpler than that. He is still super happy now, researching stuff on the internet etc. He might be even reading this post.

Undeniably we probably slightly helped him with the boarding decision, that its fun, great opportunity to meet friends, etc - but he always liked trips, ski schools, summers with grandparents and so on and he does appear to actually want the boarding part. He is happy there will be no more mummy, daddy, sisters taking his books, ruining his piano practice. We have a large family household, and he is the oldest child, so its easier for him to realise the advantage of the boarding system vs staying at home. Finally some peace.

However, specific elements to Eton he liked:

  • he really liked the fact that each child has a single room - not the case at other boarding schools btw
  • he liked the fact David Cameron was there just few months ago giving some speech as PM (something he read on the notice board before interviews)
  • he is fascinated by the history of the place, the own words, the somewhat funny dress code, etc. He likes history so its good thing he can actually be in the place which is part of it. We asked him to read the prospectus before the interviews, so I am sure that Eton themselves helped us to convince him that they are the place to be.
  • he wants to form his own music band at school and is happy that there are 250 kids a year to chose from, most of whom play some instrument (currently there are 40 and forming a band is impossible), and he is happy there is a recording studio there, and I think he suggested to them that he wants to do the school Eton band factor, or something like that.
  • he likes the fact he will be able to go for half terms without us, as clearly he has outgrown our family visits
  • oh yes, and he really liked the matron of one house there, who kissed him on his forehead to say goodbye and was like a sweet grandma and not the matron

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And to us it was an easy choice too.

We wanted real boarding only school, and i am happy its in small village like Eton, vs for instance Winchester which is not so small and can present challenges of the local town, possibly local community even (i am fairly sure that the local comp boys will dislike the local public school boys out of principle).

When we visited Eton the boys I met, who were really randomly stopped, all were friendly, very confident for 16y old kids, just stopped in the middle of the street, talking to 30 parents who are staring at their somewhat long waistcoat. Importantly they all - without exception - had a very good sense of humour. :) It was a good sample of kids I would be happy for my DS to be around.

Plus, I am kind of motivated to stop looking at others now, as he is happy and why confuse him when he is happy. The place is great, and why even potentially allow some other places to reject him, confusing him even more.

Hope this answers your question.

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Just before I log off, for good i am afraid, I can tell you that I actually now think, that him wanting this place so much himself, perhaps because of actually reading the prospectus the day before, was probably key in his interview performance. No games, no saying that he reads poetry for fun (apparently people say this?!), no interview prep at all other than one instruction from us... to talk a lot.

OP posts:
Caoimhe · 20/12/2010 15:23

Actually the Whitgift exam is on the 6th of January - are you not planning on taking your ds to the exam?

I also didn't realise that St Olave's now tell you that your ds has passed the exam - in the past you just had to wait until allocations day in March.

It is quite concerning that you don't seem to have thought through a back-up plan for your ds. There are no guarantees with St Olave's or Eton.

lazymumofteenagesons · 20/12/2010 15:23

Kris, to get back to your original post at the beginning of this thread. look at the best route for your son into Eton, if that is what you want.
At least 3 posters including myself are dubious about a separate exam for state school boys other than this 'New Foundation Scholarship'. One of them who seems to have an inside knowledge of Eton is even asking for the name of the person who told you about a seperate exam. This is a highly risky route for exceptional boys and is aimed at those who qualify for a bursary, which I do not think you do.

Entry by CE is the most straight forward and requires boys to do higher level french, maths and Latin. You need a prep school, this is their job and they have been specialising in it for years. Even if he neters prep school in year 7 he will have alot of catching up to do. Eton will not take a boy from whatever background who is not up to speed on entering year 9.

I don't have personal experience of Eton, but I do of Westminster, which can't be much different. They move very fast academically in the first year and the day is very full. No time for catch ups. Some boys who have been tutored for CE and got in this way find it very difficult once they are there.

Caoimhe · 20/12/2010 15:14

Why will you pull out of all other private school admission processes in January? You won't know if your ds has got a place at St Olave's until March. What will you do if he doesn't get a place at St Olave's?

lastpuddingleftontheshelf · 20/12/2010 12:59

can you explain why you decided that no other public schoil than Eton would be appropriate for your ds. Most parents who want to follow the public school route would have an alternative or two in mind should their application not be successful. Eton is not the only school with the facilities etc you describe. I am genuinely interested to hear your reasoning.

seeker · 20/12/2010 12:44

Of course you're not the enemy. But if you find being challenged on here difficult, then you will find it infinitely harder in real life. And if you follow the path you suggest you will definitely have to justify it in real life - I guarantee it.

kris123 · 20/12/2010 12:33

In January we will pull out of all further private schools admission processes, including Whitgift.

OP posts:
DontLetTinselDragOnTheFloor · 20/12/2010 12:22

Iirc, with Whitgift, which you mentioned earlier on, you have to agree that it is your intention for your son to be there until he is 18, so you would have to lie.

kris123 · 20/12/2010 11:57

DanZZZ, it would be great if we can maybe start a new thread on this topic as it is interesting one to me too (or I will start it for you if you want). I will call it
"SECONDARY EDUCATION FOR GIRLS. SPECIAL VIEWS ON BOARDING AND SINGLE SEX SCHOOLS".

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I have a reply ready, but due to amount of negativity here and expected further spiteful comments that you will now see on anything I will say here, skewing peoples interpretation of my answers, new thread is the best way I think.

Indeed I am even thinking of shutting this thread down, as I now seem to be the "enemy" to some, a user of the system, person without the morals, and one that deprives other kids of their futures.

Internet is a great thing, but difficult to control.

OP posts:
MrsWobble · 20/12/2010 11:12

my dd was at a state primary school with a boy who got a place at Eton. I don't know the financial details obviously but he left the state primary at the end of year 5 to go to Westminster under school for years 6,7 and 8. This seems consistent with info provided by other posters so if I were you, OP, I would be looking at something like this rather than trying to make the grammar school system fit your needs.

DanZZZenAroundTheTreeAgain · 20/12/2010 10:19

looking at my last post again, it seems a bit rude, I didn't mean it that way though

DanZZZenAroundTheTreeAgain · 20/12/2010 10:17

I don't know if you got a response from another parent whose ds attended state school before going to Eton in the end which is what you said you were looking for originally.

Is it all clear now then Kris, how to prepare, what the exam consists of, etc?

Just wondering, you have a dd too, don't you? You say you can "just" afford to send ds to Eton, so I presume you could not really afford the 2 years of prep school on top of that or at least not easily. What will you do about dd when the time comes? Have you calculated her schooling into all this as well?

Bue · 19/12/2010 21:09

To my knowledge nearly every public school offers an alternative to CE (well, apart from Westminster, I think). DH teaches at a top public school and children take the school's own entrance test if their school doesn't prepare for CE. I wouldn't be surprised if Eton had some sort of similar set-up.

PixieOnaLeaf · 19/12/2010 19:02

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Message withdrawn

Greythorne · 19/12/2010 18:29

I love this thread
Kris - you're brightening up my day
your comments are classic

PixieOnaLeaf · 19/12/2010 17:20

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Caoimhe · 19/12/2010 13:18

THe only reference I can find to entrants not doing CE (whether from Prep or the state sector) is for the New Foundation Scholarships, as below:

"In September 2009 Eton was able to start offering a new annual scholarship for one or two boys who have been educated in the UK maintained (state) sector for at least years 6, 7 and 8 of their schooling up to age 13. From September 2011, we will be able to offer four places. This scholarship is aimed in particular at boys who would not be able to attend Eton without very substantial financial assistance (in certain cases, full assistance may be given), and who are not in a position to prepare easily for the King?s Scholarship."

So only 4 places are available under this system. Not sure how many boys they take overall but taking CE would certainly improve the chances for Kris's ds.

Caoimhe · 19/12/2010 12:58

There is mention of such an exam but it refers to a "small number of boys" getting places that way so Kris may be jeopardising her son's chances by taking that route. Obviously the majority of boys will have come via the Prep & CE route.

In her shoes I would also be concerned with my son starting at Eton at an academic disadvantage - who wants to be the boy who has to do catch-up lessons in French and Latin? Certainly one way of marking him out as a low-achiever.

BTW Kris - do you have any idea of the kinds of boys who go to St Olave's? The majority are not from ordinary backgrounds - quite a number will have been to Prep school and will come from families that could quite easily afford private education. So you won't be teaching your ds any particular social skills by sending him there - nor will he be "teaching" them how to deal with Etonians. They will cross paths for 2 years and then meet up again at their Oxbridge interviews.