stay independent or move into state for secondary?

Byblyofyle ^^
It is my experience that 'weaker' teachers gravitate to 'poor' areas - and stay there. Perpetuating the lack of achievement.
That is the reason why we took our dtr out of the failing state school she was in and subjected ourselves to a life of penury to put her in an indie. She has never been happy as she is 'now learning' - her words.
Obviously not every state school is poor, underachieving or rubbish. But the ones where we live happen to be. Best thing I ever did.
Sorry for hijacking, but generalised comments like this make me

I hope you don't mind me saying this, but from our experience, I really wouldn't rely on your DH's new business bringing in sufficient money to pay for school fees any time soon. I'm afraid that the best and luckiest of new businesses, with good contacts and a good track record in the past, take time to get established and move to making money. The result can be extremely stressful for the whole family, without the demands to find the extra tens of thousands for school fees.

I would jump at the chance of sending your daughter to the good state school.

I work in the education sector, talking to a lot of teachers, and it's often very interesting to see the difference between how the teachers present their opinions of the way in which the school manages teaching and the children, and the way in which the same school is seen by the wider public.

"BUT by far the biggest shock has been being around children that don't want to learn and are disruptive"

TBH, I think you would probably get that with any move from a small primary to a large secondary though.>>

Agree to some extent, but we are talking about moving from a selective to non-selective here - so this is something the OP needs to be prepared for.

DD1s previous school was only 2 classes of 18 from years 3 to 6 rising to 4 * 18 in yr 7. I have friends with children in private selective secondary schools in other areas that are much larger, and on the whole everyone wants to work. Same for the grammar schools that don't generally have the smaller class size.

"BUT by far the biggest shock has been being around children that don't want to learn and are disruptive"

TBH, I think you would probably get that with any move from a small primary to a large secondary though.

We took our dd from private into state, away from all her friends. The guilt kept me awake from February when we made the decision until she started in September this year. She is fine, new school is great she has loads of new freinds, still sees the old ones and I am sleeping again!

It really doesn't seem that hard a decision to me. You will really struggle with the fees (poss not in 2 years but you can't be sure) and you have a great state option. I think you're really lucky.
I think sometimes people can't bear to deny their children private education as they feel that making a decision based on finances when you're talking about children's futures is somehow immoral. Instead of thinking of it as money saved why not convert it into something that will make you feel less emotive and guilty eg a) you being able to be flexible about your work and spend more time with your children b) or your dh c) being able to save the money on fees and put it towards helping them with living costs and tuition at university d) using the money instead to help with living costs while they do a work placement that could help them get a job etc, etc. You may feel differently about the saving then.

It is such a hard decision. We had to make a similar one for DD1 (now yr9). I still quiz myself most days as to whether we realy did the right thing by moving her.

She was in private pre-prep from age 3. Then took 7+ and went to a highly selective prep school, which goes right through to 18. She loved it there for the fist three years, then became a bit lazy and started to resent being pushed. We were also struggling financially at the time. Never any question of her work not being good enough to be there - just that she was in the middle workwise, when her teachers felt she was capable of being near the top. We did actually receive a 20% bursary for her in year 6, so don't think they wanted her to go.

We are also in a very affluent area, although there is a slightly wider difference in the results between the private and comp she is now at. 100% A* to C at the private vs 70% / 59% at the comp. I think this is mainly due to a "brain drain" into 3 excellent selective privates, all generally in the top 150 in the country.

The comp is a good school, heavily oversubscribed.

We were prepared for DD being ahead work wise, and this has not been too much of a problem. Made sure she had plenty extra CA etc.
In some ways she had less adjusting to make than those moving from state primaries, as had been used
to separate subject teachers from year 5.
BUT by far the biggest shock has been being around children that don't want to learn and are disruptive.
She just didn't see any of that in the private schools.

Like the OP we could have down-sized, possibly gone into mote debt. But we chose not to. DD2 has been in the state sector since reception. It seemed unfair to start the private cycle with her and not be able to continue. Luckily, with 6 school years between them, there would have been little overlap.

So we made the choice we did primarily for financial reasons. But I can't pretend that DDs attitude and early "underachiever" signs didn't help swing it. She was happy to move at the time, but now says she would have preferred to stay.
As I see it now, the most likely outcome is that she will not push herself and come out with a string of B/C grade GCSEs. If she had stayed at the private school, she may have ended up with a string if A"s - or she may have been pushed over the edge.

It sounds like your DD is highly motivated, so will do well wherever she goes. if finances are going to be an issue long term, then the move must be made now. It would be awful to need to do it a couple of years down the line, and not get to chose a half decent comp.

But if you really know the finances will be OK in a
couple of years, is there any way at all you could get the money to cover this period? It seems a real shame to pull her out of an environment in which she is happy and doing well. However good the comp, she will notice the difference.

It's a difficult situation.

How do the sixth form results of both schools compare and what universities do the academic girls progress to?

Perhaps a third way may be to move house so both your son and daughter can attend a good state school. Seems a bit unfair if your daughter passes the entrance exam for the upper school that she is moved but her brother gets to stay. Different if she wasn't capable of staying.

However, on the face of it the state results are good for a mixed intake. I would interrigate the results a little more - how do the schools measure when comparing the numbers of girls who achieve 5 A*-C at GCSE including English, maths,science, MFL and one other (say history / geography)?

Hi not a bit of it. I firmly believe children should mix with a wide variety of people from all kinds of backgrounds. The OP would, it seems, in an ideal world like to keep her child at a school that she is happy at and they as a family have faith in. My comments about the state school refered to the fact that even in the greenest leafiest suburbs a school will have a variety of kids so you cant say . well that school did well because they all came from priviledged backgrounds. Poor and priviledge are meant in their brodest terms. Not just financial. 68% A-C from a school with a mixed intake may well be doing better than 98% from a selected group. BTW both my children attend state schools

I think meba's comment sums up exactly why you should send your dd to the comp. How horrible if she was to get the attitude that meba obviously has that mixing with poorer kids is somehow bad

Just a thought. If your dd is scholarship material I assume the school wont want to loose her. What is the bursary situation. Even if it is not advertised it might be worth a quiet word about your financial situation.

If DD's school is highly selective it would probably only take the top 1/3rd from a state primary. where as the comp will be taking them all and still getting 77% a-c. Does that include maths and English? Other things to look at are % doing MFL GCSE's and triple science.

Even in a middle class area some kids will be from poorer backgrounds. The state school will have a bigger range of special needs

77% in a comp is EXCELLENT
That means their top 100 kids or so are at the same level as the private.
Sixth form is a GOOD thing - means 16 year olds do not think they are the kings of the castle. The kids heading on to Russell Group Unis are.

It will be fine.

How many children per year in the private school?
How did the equal number of top pupils at the comp do?
State school results are always mangled by the bottom 25%, so compare the equivalents.
At DD's comp last year there were 4 pupils who got 11 A* at GCSE.
And some who did zilch.

Another thing. DD does badminton, rock climbing, table tennis, wind band - after school all free.
The facilities at her comp beat my old GDST school on every score.
The range rover / pony coefficients is pretty high too as part of the catchment is rural!

DH visits lots of schools. Comps get the best teachers. Comps with sixth forms the very best.
Selective independents get teachers who want an easy life.

Also meant to say that I went to a state school and my brother to a private school and I certainly didn't feel resentful. My school suited me, and his school suited him (which his first, state school did not). Our parents made their decision based on our individual needs, not a blanket policy - although we are farther apart in age than your DCs.

Blimey, that's tough. FWIW I think you need to look at the situation as it is NOW, and not worry what you will do about your DS in 2 years time. The fact is that the fees are a struggle, and you have a very good state school nearby which DD is likely to get into. You'd be mad not to apply (maybe you already have?).

Our DS1 moved from private to state in September and it's going really well, even though he didn't know anyone there.

I think a good state school is often equally as good as a private (no good primaries near us unfortunately) and I really cannot see anything that he's missing out on compared to any of the private schools we also considered (standard day schools, not Eton or anything!).

DS2 will move up next September and has different needs (possibly dyslexic) but am hoping that the same school will also work for him. If I was sure that private would be best for him I wouldn't have any qualms about doing that, you have to do your best in each situation as it comes up.

I'm sure if you were forced to downsize your house that would have a significant effect on your family and protecting yourself against that would be a good plan.