Tiffin talk

Deaddei - You are absolutely right, I have been completely converted to Coombe Girls and so has my DD. She now refuses to have anything to do with Tiffin.

Two neighbours have DDs in y8 at CGS (and both close friends of DD) and they praise it to the skies.

DancingHippo...Coombe Girls is very good.

I agree the kids at Tiffin are probably lovely, and certainly appeared very pleasant and well mannered at the open day. They always are at every open day, though. They certainly were at Coombe Girls, anyway.

Problem for me was that the focus of the school (Tiffin that is) is all wrong for my DD. She has close friends who go there and seem fine, but their interests are different. One size does not fit all.

I think the VR tests have a huge cultural bias and I think under the New Equality Act schools could be really challenged. There are other tests that are not quite as bad.

Imagine you are as bright as anything but English is not your first language or you are Dyslexic.

I know a boy last year who got in to Tiffin. He practised with his Mum. He is also very bright. My DS is often compoared to him by their teachers but he is dyslexic and has issues around focusing. This can make tests difficult. ATM he is doing the Bond 10 min tests (in prep for Wandsworth Test) and he can do them in under 10 mins and 100% but on a another day it can take him 30 mins and not get all the answers.

Last charge that i looked after did a couple of weeks of practice of the tests just so that he knew what to expect on the day. Actually got a place although moved so did not take it up. As a primary school boy he used to do drama there and choir with the years 7 and 8 i was always so impressed with the how plite that the boys were while there. Several times they changed rooms on me and there was always some one waiting to show me where he was at pick up time.

Trouble with only using VR and NVR to assess is that they only assess ability in a fairly narrow kind of way - and in the Tiffin exam with the time pressure I feel that they test exam technique more than anything. This was recognised in the old days of universal 11+ and such tests were largely discredited.

For this reason I would rather my DCs took more rounded assessments which actually assess all aspects of their abilities. I realise for a school like Tiffin this is impossible as they get so many applicants, but I still think it is sad that proper assessments are not done. A lot of very able applicants must fall by the wayside.

DHOA - wasn't suggesting for minute that Tiffin exam allows for creativity, just that it might offer more of a level playing field - especially for those who can't think creatively in a trad' exam situation, so to speak. Does that make sense?

willow - there is too much time pressure in the Tiffin exam to allow for any creativity! that is what all the tutoring is about, exam technique to answer these multi choice questions at the speed of light. They have to use this crude measure as it can be machine marked and scores can be awarded without the need for any human input. They cannot put in any more time to marking as there are so manty candidates.

IME the candidates from private preps go through the same tutoring, as they need to learn a particular exam technique which is not covered by the preps. Private preps tend to prep for private secondary 11+ which, while they do tend to include some VR and NVR it is not taken to the same level as the Tiffin test and they include written papers and interviews in the selection process.

In this area most schools (excep the faith schools) do not have set catchment areas or feeder primaries, the criteria are strictly statemented first, then looked after kids, then siblings, then walking distance from the school. A not insignificant number of kids transfer from private preps in the area.

Sorry you are in a crap situation with feeder schools etc in your area. That system just seems so unfair, why can they not just simply go on distance from school, isn't that much fairer?

Went to see boys' school last year and liked it. Boys who took us round were down to earth, confident and friendly - but, boy, was it rammed in there.

Am lol though at talk of how the VR and non VR are more pressure than all the other 11+s. As all the other 11+s round here seem to include English, Maths, VR and Non VR, can't see that Tiffin's any worse. If anything, it might be better for kids who need bit more time and space (than, say, an English exam allows) to let their creativity flow. As for tutoring, seems to me that if your child is in a state school - which mine is - you have to tutor (either paid for or DIY) for all these exams, if only to ensure that your child has a) covered the topics and b) has the faintest idea as to how to actually take an exam. Understandably, the latter is not something that state primaries focus on, unlike the independent sector where kids are prepped for 11+

Am also LOL at talk of catchment areas for secondaries. No, they might not have official catchment areas, but in our area unless you are in a linked primary and live nearby to your choice of secondary you haven't a hope in hell of getting into a good one. You could live on the doorstep of one and not be at a linked primary and you still wouldn't get in. LIkewise, you could be at linked primary and not live that close and, consequently, not get in. Either way, we're buggered as we tick neither of these boxes!

I don't think you will find Tiffin all that socially inclusive, tropical - very few get in without tutoring which is not cheap and quite a few apply from private preps. None of the local comps have a 0,5 mile catchment area, that would only apply to the primaries.

The other thing about grammars is that they are socially inclusive in a way that high performing comprehensive schools are not. Children can travel from quite far to the school as there is no 0.5 mile catchment area and some children come from modest backgrounds which wasnt the case with dc's primary.
If I had chosen to send my dc to a private school I may have worried about his/her attitude towards entitlement to money and that most classmates backgrounds would be far wealthier than our own.

cybbo - every school has an atmosphere, I didnt mean anything derogatory. I just meant that this particular school did not feel right for my DD. Have also had feedback from lots of Tiffin parents I know, they also agree with me about my DD, though they all think she would be offered a place as she is academically very strong.

Decided not to go for tutoring as it would be pointless trying to get DD into a school that would not suit her.

tropical, my d is 15 Yr 10 and seem sto have hardly ANY homework, except for Art GCSE coursework. Rumours of hours and hours slaving away just aren't true.

'Some people think I am mad as DD is very able but I just know she would hate the Tiffin atmosphere.'
Hippo I am interested to know what you think the Tiffin atmosphere is like based on a cramped ,desperate open evening.

My daughter goes there and I have to say there is no 'atmosphere'. It is a school full of bright girls who are friendly and talented, no different from your daughter.

It is very easy to get sniffy about Tiffin and its entrance exam requirements but no one forces anyone to go there. And 'tutoring' is one hour a week, IF you choose to do it.

'Very poor for the arts and humanities which are what DD is keen on.' I have to disagree here, the art and drama department are second to none (little experience of humanities but again am wondering what you are basing your opinion on)

My dc goes to a different selective grammar however I can relate to the posters that feel that a warm welcoming hand is not held out to them at the head teachers talk. This could be that they are trying to deter people from making unrealistic choices.
I did however get a different perspective on going on the tours where I found the teachers and students to be very helpful.
I formed my main judgement from the displays of student work on the walls of the classrooms and corridors; which I judged to be outstanding in their quality.
It is alot of work to get into the school, but as my child got in, I do think it was worth it.
Not only for academic grounds, social reasons and also for the very strong musical interests that most of the students share to a very high level of attainment.
The peculiar thing I hadnt expected is that the school is not very strict and has very little homework although Tiffins may be different. It would be a good thing to get some opinions from parents whose kids are at Tiffins.

Menagerie - I agree that you need to see the school during the day to get a better feel for it.

Personally, I took against Tiffin girls quite strongly listening to the head's speech. Her emphasis was so far away from what DD needs that I just knew it was a non- starter.

DD was keen at first to go but found out that it was only because her best friend is having tutoring for the test. After thinking about it she came to the conclusion herself that she would not be happy there.

Menagerie - if you (and your DS) get a gut feeling that it would suit him, then go for it.Why not do what Sari has done and ask for a tour during the day?

Not saying Tiffin isn't a very good school, juts reacting against the local received wisdom that it must be the BEST school for all bright DCs. Sadly I think that way of thinking has resulted in quite a few DCs being pushed into a school which really does not meet their needs just because their parents think it is THE BEST. No such thing as a school which is the best for all DCs

I also share your concern about only assessing using VR and NVR tests. These only measure ability in a very narrow way. I suspect they are used because they are easy to mark and Tiffin can only cope with the number of applicants it gets by using a test like this.

Aniula at the taking agaisnt the blazer - love 'em!

We're having a look round on Thursday morning as we couldn't make it yesterday. I'm very interested in seeing it with all the boys there and working out whether it would suit ds1 or not. He's in year 6 so we are at final decision time.

I disagree that the Tiffin exam is more pressure than others although I guess if you are desperate to go there it is pretty tough. However, I think that the amount of Maths you haven't covered by about the time in year 5 you start thinking about practising for other schools is very daunting. Plus a lot of these schools have very early tests which must affect your summer holidays. At least with VR and NVR that is all you have to do.

Pressure in my view is living about 60m too far from Graveney and therefore having to get around 98% in order to be offered a place at what is your nearest school when that school would undoubtedly suit you and you could wander up the road to it in 5 minutes. (Meanwhile certain of your friends talk openly about using cousins' addresses in order to get in, but that is another story.)

animula - sadly I think DCs have less chance of getting in without the tutoring. Which is why I have a problem this particular entrance test. It requires Dcs to work at very high speed which can be drilled into them to a certain extent.

I think this puts off a lot of parents who can't afford the tutoring which I feel is wrong for a state school.

I think they keep it as a multi choice VR/ NVR as it is quick and easy to mark, not because it is a more objective measure.

animula - I am sure your DS would have been offered a place and is very bright, grounded etc.

Maybe that is why he realised it was not right for him? Perhaps the "not liking the blazer" was code for an indefinable feeling that the fit was not right?

My point really is that Tiffin is NOT the best school for all bright DCs and regarding it as the best school for ALL is very blinkered.

Well done for not forcing him to go there aginst his wishes. Many parents would have done and he could have been very miserable.

Never said the Dcs at Tiffin are not normal, but perhaps they have different interests to my DD.