OMG!

Everyone is entitled to have children, it's a fundamental human right. Just because you can afford yours atm rather than rely on some help to get you through the early days doesn't mean you are more entitled, or your family more valid. Children need to be born to keep the economy going in the future. Governments should help with the bringing of them up because of this.

sancti - Then we should tackle the systems and as we have no idea how the new system will work it seems premature to judge it.

maintaining the birthrate will actually exacerbate the problem. I for one would rather supplement our workforce with immigration than simply fund more and more children.

LO it is a problem with the systems

The Coalition managed systems that they know this new rule brings in to play

The principle of tests is fine- but teh reality is not. And it is reality governments deal with, not principle.

Londonone there isn't an answer to that debate; the world has too many people but in order tom miantain pensions and any vestige of a care system for odler people we have 2 choices- maintain birth rate or start comp[ulsory euthanasia! Which of the three would you rpefer, cutting pensions / care, or euthanasia I wonder?
Tough chocies indeed.

WRT to asd / DLA concersn JIC anyone thinks I am over reacting it ain't just me

sancti - that is a problem with the systems though, not with the principle

agree with abouteve

abouteve - do you feel the world is underpopulated then? That seems an odd view.

And LL it's all very well saying more cash to go around but we know that medical assessments of this kid work against people with non visible disabilities

ASD, MS, the list is huge.

That's not sepparating it down for the needy, it's being happy to discard the needy if tehy don't come with a big label saying :Look at me! I'm disabled'

Well Riv- I didn't need to be told so LOL, I wouldn't vote for them if tehre were no otehr options!

2.7 million cuts to HB and DLA. I'm trying to find a palce at nursery after school for ds1 and if he hjits someone it won't be my fault, I have to make sure I can pay the bills. Starting to look afterwards is too late.

If everyone only had children that they could afford the birthrate would drop dramatically then we would be stuffed in the future.

I believe LL is due money too. However I also believe she has a responsibility to ensure that she doesn't continue to have children she cannot afford.

What Riven said.

And, as I said, this is the first time I voted because I only naturalised a few years ago.

This was my first time voting in a general election. Even then, it wasn't hard to figure out what the Tories stood for.

I came to that decision all on my own. No one led me in one way or another and all my family are Conservatives.

"Normal middle income families with a good standard of living are being given money by the state. It is ludicrous. Stop giving cash to those who don't need it and there will be more to go round for those who genuinely do like carers and those unable to work."

I believe LL is one of those who genuinely need it.

Listen to yourselves. Which part of we spent far more than we had, don't you understand? If someone earns 10 pounds a week and spends twenty pounds a week it is unsustainable. That is what the labour government did and finally someone is doing something about it. Why should people give the government a vast proportion of their money so that everyone can have all they fancy? Normal middle income families with a good standard of living are being given money by the state. It is ludicrous. Stop giving cash to those who don't need it and there will be more to go round for those who genuinely do like carers and those unable to work.

Acanthus, LL was 16 when that happened! At 16 did you read the leaflets that came with any medication?

LL, you're gettin quite a thrashing on this thread, you don't deserve this. The council housing situation sucks, there are a lot of people living in accomodation that doesn't meet their needs, I'm one of them. There are also people living in accomodation that is far too big for them (my MIL for example, but we'll not go there ). IIRC it was Margaret T who decided to let council tenants buy their houses, and this has led to a lack of social housing.

I'm 29, and can't remember any election until Tony Blair was made PM.

well, Darling and Byrne both said they would make cuts that were tougher than Thatcher's...

re. Darling on the 100k - would that be the threshold for 50% tax? (I can't find the story). That was the threshold it was set at when it was Lib Dem policy, and they got rid of it because it wouldn't bring enough in.

londonone- my mum didnt choose to have me. Despite being a midwife she didnt realise she was pregnant until she was 24 weeks and so was too late for an abortion.

If the only safe form of contraceptive is no sex and another baby means nowhere for it to sleep, what will you do?

FOREPLAY

According to Darling today big jike in ntax for over 100k and a continuation of NI policy

now having a as to what I think of NI but I think what tehy were planning is fairly out tehre isn't it?

and not "well, they wouldn't have hit...". What would they have done?

Just out of interest, what do you think would have happened if she'd voted Labour? When Labour got round to making the cuts/tax increases, what would they have been?

I feel sorry for you Loudlass, as it sounds like you have it hard. I hope your luck changes soon.

Also sorry that you got what you voted for.

LOUDLASS I'm really sorry at the direction parts of this thread have gone in. Your contraception is nothing to do with anyone else; the welfare state is there to support people with disabilities or children that they couldn't otherwise feed, clothe and house.

I think it is shocking that although your medical condition has meant that you needed a sterilisation, but that your PCT has refused to pay for one. It is going to cost the country a lot more in the long run, so very short sighted of them. However, you'll have a lovely new baby in 6 months - congratulations!