im so anxious about threats to cut ctc...

sweetkitty, the help towards childcare doesn't stop at 15k but it reduces the more you earn. We earn a lot more than that but still get a v small % of childcare paid for. It really makes a difference to us.

So WFTC the help towards childcare stops completely at over 15K so say your partner earned 18K and you wanted to go and work part time or even full time, you would be no help towards childcare at all?

Never claimed WFTC so don't understand how it works?

8ace of course people shouldn't have children if they can't afford them.

There is of course a vast difference between someone who loses their job and struggles to support the children they already have, and someone who carries on having more children despite the fact they are struggling to support the children they already have.

People seem to have lost their sense of personal responsibility in this country. Want to buy a house you can't afford? oh well take out a 125% mortgage and then blame the mortgage lender when you go into debt and can't afford the repayments because they shouldn't have lent you the money.

Want a holiday? Oh well put it on the credit card and then blame the credit card company when you can't afford the repayments because it is obviously their fault that they let you borrow money you couldn't afford.

Want another child even though you're already living on the breadline and can't afford to support the ones you already have? Oh well just carry on and claim a bit extra from the government, and how dare they tell you you can't.

There are people living in genuine financial difficulties in this country. But by the same token there are people with far too much of a sense of entitlement and no sense of personal responsibility. And it is those people, the ones who have four, five, six kids and expect the government to provide that make things worse for those who are genuinely in need.

And just to reiterate, I'm not referring to those who have fallen on hard times since having children - children which they could afford to support at the time - I'm referring to those who have children they already can't afford to support and then consciously decide to have more and feel that it is the responsibility of others, i.e. the government, and therefore by definition other taxpayers, to take responsibility for them.

I stand corrected but how come we got £10 a week when we had one child and we earned about 28K

We now have 4 children and still get £10 a week (well £20 as DS is under 1)?

It was someone on the helpline who told me this BTW (although we all know what the "helpline" is like)

The thing that mainly worries me is if there is a loss of help towards childcare. We don't get a huge amount by any means but the bit that we do get makes it financially viable for us to both work.

Agree totally, 8Ace.

Unfortunately @electra the reality is that a large family is really only possible these days if you have a) a big income and can finance them yourself or b)zero income and qualify for the maximum in benefits. It's not the poor who aren't allowed to have children, it's the people on moderate incomes who can't afford them.... one of the many reasons why the average age for new mothers is rising year on year and why the typical family size is relatively small.

'So you could earn 25K and have 6 children you get £10 a week (once they are all over 1)'

You would get far far more than that. Over £150 a week would be more accurate. (Haven't checked but have seen alot of examples and know people who get that much).

I really can't see the point in getting upset over this though until people really know what is going to happen. Just because the tabloids say that it is so, doesn't mean that it is.

I can not stand the smug "you shouldn't have children if you can't afford them" its not even a proper argument. Are you saying the children (like a decent education in this country) are to be a priviledge of the rich?

What do you suggest you do if you're partner loses their job or pisses off with someone else - you can't put a baby back once its here! Maybe poor peoples kids should just be taken into care and auctioned off to the highest bidder.

I have 3 kids and haven't been able to afford either one of them...guess what..nice, happy, generous kids with (hopefully) a bright future ahead of them. The thought of a world full of overpriviledged, spoilt little rich kids is a very depressing thought.

above should say you can be on around 35-40K

sweetkitty
You are mixing child element with family element, the latter being the one which is not variable.

Child element is variable and you can be on around 35-30K and still get 2,000 a year (or thereabouts) per child if you have 3+ children. These families are the ones that could loose £150 or more a week if they scrap TC altogether above £25K. It is these families who would probably be better off dropping hours etc and getting the extra TC.

sweetkitty, you are wrong!

WTC is stopped, no matter how much childcare, afetr about 15k!

sweetkitty, you're the one who's mixed up! You are totally mistaken about child tax credits being the same amount between 24K and 50K no matter how many children you have. Put the figures into the online calculator and see what you come out with.

We would miss CTC immensely if it was suddenly stopped, although the fair way to do it would be to stop any increases and make it harder for people who have never claimed it to be eligible.
My CTC accounts for £850 a month and will go up to over £950 when our baby is born.

Me and DP have both worked in the past and I was going to retrain as a Midwife but our 2nd child is severly disabled and I couldn't committ to the working hours and still care for him. Now he is older it is DP who he relies on and as I am pregnant again neither of us works. I do plan to go to work when DC4 is born and in Nursery, even if it is just parttime

Before anyone says I am draining the state consider if we had put our child into care, he would then cost the state thousands a month. Plus it is circumstance which cause us to rely on CTC not laziness or greed

People get so het up and mixed up about Tax credits.

They are split into 2 components

Child Tax Credit - which you get regardless of working
Working Families Tax Credit - to help pay for childcare costs

Child Tax Credit - it is the SAME amount if you earn between 24 and 55K or something a year, the SAME amount no matter how many children you have.

So you could earn 25K and have 6 children you get £10 a week (once they are all over 1)

Earn 54K a year and have one child you get £10 a week

Is it CTC or WFTC they are cutting, I am pretty sure WFTC stops once you reach a certain amount, have never claimed it but know we would not receive it anyway?

Lol at instead of mothercare, try ASDA or Primark or charity shops! FFS!

We are talking about SURVIVING, not being able to afford the lastest fashion! Some of us (esp mums) haven't bought ANY clothes for years!!

You are so frickin perfect, well done you.

Absolutely, SGB.

Initially, I thought - to my surprise - that this government were going to hit businesses, etc., with an increase in employers' NI. However, the Daily Telegraph have suggested that, while this is likely to happen, it will only hit those with workforces paid above £21,000:

"National Insurance rates for employers, employees and the self-employed are likely to go up by 1 percentage point, while the thresholds are expected to rise by £570 for employees (the Labour Government plan) and £1,092 for employers (the Conservative plan), Deloitte said.

"This should mean that employers would actually see a reduction in National Insurance contributions for employees earning up to £21,000, and employees earning up to £20,000 would benefit as well. Those earning above these thresholds would pay more," it added."

So, all those companies who pay the vast majority of their staff the minimum wage, will actually - at least wrt their salaries budgets/outgoings - be better off!!!!!!

we are on £18,000 with 3 kids how will this affect us? I dont work yet am looking but live in a rural area and barely any jobs so havent got one yet. Will we be better if i dont work? God that feels so wrong to say that as i want to support my family through working too!

Barmyarmy you might want to re-think that if you are not going to go back to work. Getting CB means that you do not have to make NIC contributions in those years so your state pension is protected. It's called home responsibilities protection.
Worth considering because although you might not need the money now, you might want your pension when you're old.
Obviously if you don't need the money you could save it for your dc, or give it to charity.

THe way to make this a positive thing would be to buckle it onto an increase in the minimum wage. Because it's not just the 'feckless proles with too many kids' that tax credits are subsidizing - it's the massive corporations boosting their profits by holding wages down and telling their staff they can make it up with tax credits.

No, we don't claim child benefit. Then again, our little girl is just 4 days old! But we have no intention of doing so - we don't need it...sure, it would help pay for Mama's & Papa's clothes instead of Mothercare etc etc but that would be wrong in my view.

I have heard several people say they will have to give up their jobs (mostly women working part time as second earners). Also people talking about being better off on benefits. The nearer you are to 25K and the more kids you have the worse off you will be.

Alot of people think the Cons wanted to so this anyway but are blaming the Lib dems as it was their policy. However, the Lib dems originally wanted to scrap it for those on about 26K with one child and 31K with two and £6K added on after that per child. They were talking mainly about the family element (according to a IFS report) which can be claimed up till over 50K. The other elements can be claimed up to about 40K if you have 3+ kids. I am wondering if they are scrapping them all now (childcare, family and child elements), in which case they should be reporting that families will loose thousands a year and not up to £545.

X-post, wubbly!

Not necessarily, GOTW. The WOHP or non-parents, etc., who are currently unemployed may take up those posts, thus reducing the unemployment figures. Couples with one person working do not claim JSA, etc. A win-win situation for the government: reduce CTC and unemployment.