im so anxious about threats to cut ctc...

Part of the problem is that it has become socially acceptable to be on benefits.

There are still old people who resist going to hospital because they think they are being taken to the work house!!

We should stop thinking that the state has to subsidise us. It should only be there for people in genuine hardship.

My parents dragged bought up 6 children on one wage, in the south east on less than 25k a year. No benefits for them. My mum was ashamed when one year we had to have free school meals. She still has trouble thinking about it.
Of course the food police would have a problem with the beans on toast and egg and chips we survive on at times!
I had a brilliant childhood. Probably happier than some of my well off friends I talk to now.

Not so much the family on tv last year getting 26k in benefits. Of which most was disability allowance because he was an alcoholic!!!!

"geek please look at the 3rd message on this post as im not certain what is defined as net income"

Your gross income (including tax and NI) minus what you pay in childcare. If your salary before tax is £30k p.a. that is your gross income. If you pay 5k per year childcare your net income (for CTC calculation purposes) is £25k.

You'd understand it much better if you went to the site I recommended earlier on Onine CTC Calculator and entered your details. You could also see if you'd been underclaiming.

Well done for never having life take you up the arse and ruin all your plans.

What is the point of looking to the future/having a foot in the ladder if the short term leaves you up shit creek and homeless?

I think ax Credits have been a terrible thing in the main. The fact that people are actually saying they will reduce hours or give up work just shows how badly wrong this system has gone.

From report by the IFS
here

We would be entitled to ctc but we don't claim. We chose to have children, we chose the level of our mortgage, we chose what career paths to take knowing what our income would be...so we live within our means, just like our parents did and their parents before that.

It's not fascist to say people shouldn't have children if they can't support them themselves, it's just how it should be. That's how we've become the welfare state we are, everyone expects money from the state for something.

Also agree with wannaBe.

I would love to have 3 children, but we can't afford it. We are wavering a little about TTC number 2 at the moment until we see what sort of a tax increase DH will get hit with. We are above the threshold for TC, but not so far above that life is a bed of roses.

I get annoyed when people say 'oh but they don't get xyz, so shouldn't they get some help?'. Why? Benefits (and TC are benefits no matter how it's dressed up) are there to protect people from sinking when things go wrong. When they lose a job, or get long term sick or whatever it might be. We shouldn't be in this position where families are relying on state money year after year after year to fund their lifestyle.
All TC do is allow companies to get away with paying their employees shitty wages, rather than rewarding them properly.

Anyone with a job at the moment would be mad to give it up unless the increase in childcare costs would mean they defaulted on the mortgage or something. This is not a short term problem and if you have a foot on the ladder somewhere you need to keep it there, especially if there is any pension contribution involved.

Just seen Ewe's post.

"We should be targeting our frustration at the system at the companies who get away with paying absolutely fuck all so that the state HAVE to step in and subsidise salaries with tax credits."

Targeting companies will only drive jobs abroad in a lot of cases. They are exploiting the global free market. That's the problem with globalisation. Why would companies pay a premium for UK people to do the work when they can get it at lower cost elsewhere? They exist purely and simply to make money.

According to a report but the IFS they said that 'The child elements are withdrawn as income rises, so that roughly the richer half of families with children do not receive them, and no party is proposing to make cuts to these.'
Obviously that was before the coalition and we all know they don't always stick to what they say before being elected. The coalition is a good excuse to do what they want without total blame.

Anyway i was thinking, if they are cutting tax credits entirely, surely the papers would have had a field day with families that could loose thousands a year rather than their stories of loosing £545.

'The Liberal Democrats want to make larger cuts by withdrawing the family element as soon as the child element has been withdrawn. For a 1-child family, this would mean that tax credits would not be paid to families with a combined income of around £25,500 if implemented today; each additional child would increase this value by around £6,080'

So even the Lib Dems weren't talking of scrapping them all from £25K.
So maybe family/child element won't be cut right away?

Sorry ewe, but in DHs job in particular, he doesn't get payrises and there are no promtions at all. In fact he has had a 5% pay cut last year already and is very lucky to have his job stillas they laid 50% of workforce off.

Can I pick up on all those that are saying they might quit their job if these cuts come in?

I don't see how quitting work right now is wise in the longer term. My financial advisor friend is absolutely convinced that mortgage rates will rise, along with the general cost of living and there is talk of benefit cuts across the board so less of a safety net if you do start to lose the struggle financially.

At least if you have a job there may still be an option to gain experience and get something better paid in the future or increase your hours once your children are older and hopefully the economy has improved.

Ewe, i agree with your post but many will have to look at the 'right now' just to keep a roof and food.

That may mean benefits as opposed to work for many.

Dh's firm hasnt had a payrise this year or last year and massive cutbacks are being made all the time. Promotions and payrises are extremely unlikely in the forseeable future.

I am fortunate that my job is fairly secure (NHS) but the pay isn't fabulous by any means.

I wish I could say thatI would be getting a promotion/payrise over the next couple of years.

I work for the local government and by the looks of it will have a pay freeze for the next couple of years at least and a promotion is a no go in my line of work, unless I pay for myself to go to university to qualify for a social work qualification which cannot afford either now or when they reduce the Tax Credits.

what wannabe and ronshar said is spot on. Resources are limited, we all need to take personal responsibility.

I keep hearing the worst hit will be ?Families with children where both parents go out to work, but earn a modest income.?

Is the personal tax threshold not staggered though expat so it's going to be gradual over 5 years? bet the cuts aren't staggered.

VAT as high as 20% and didn't DC say Gordon's NI hike would be a jobs tax, that's all he seemed to go on about in those debates Labours Jobs Tax, surely he cannot now turn round and raise NI, or can he? afterall everything is Labour's fault anyway

As a self employed single mother of two teenagers, one still in school, one in college, there is no way I could survive without WTC/CTC. It's hard enough as is it, and since the credit crunch my business has really suffered. In January this year I earned absolutely nothing, March only about £90, and the other months have barely scraped in a living.

It's been absolute hell this year, have had to cycle everywhere because I can't afford to put petrol in my car, buying only the basics, getting behind with bills and being sick with worry most of the time. My WTC is the only regular money I get. I know which day of the month it's coming, so can at least budget around that. People don't realise that when you're self employed you never know when you are going to get paid. You have to complete a job first, issue an invoice and then wait until the payment arrives, and as I work a lot for local government and the public sector - they certainly take their time paying let me tell you.

I've thought many times about just chucking it all in and going on benefits like millions of others, but my pride won't let me. I have been self employed since my kids were born - it allowed me to stay home with them and continue earning a living as there was no available childcare where I lived. This past year has been the worst I have every known. Getting back into paid employment is all but impossible (I've tried). People don't want to know when you've worked for yourself as long as I have, plus I am not exactly a youngster.

Please, please don't cut WTC. It's a lifeline for many of us who are one step away from the benefits queue.

It would be very short sighted to look at working vs benefits as a right now thing. If you are working you will in most jobs be getting payrises/promotions so over the years your salary would go up and you won't need additional support. Tax credits will stay at the same/similar level, I suspect over the next couple of years it won't raise in line with inflation so will be a net loss to most families.

As SGB said, the real problem here is the minimum wage, it's simply not enough to live on in much of the country - specifically in areas where there is a high population and a good job market.

We should be targeting our frustration at the system at the companies who get away with paying absolutely fuck all so that the state HAVE to step in and subsidise salaries with tax credits.

it's all speculation until next Tuesday.

personally, i think they're going to use this 'we raised the personal tax threshold to £10K' to justify all kinds of ways to fuck over everyone, most especially the working poor.

'oh, we gave you this, so here's your VAT and NI hike, and less tax credits, etc. come and tell us how grateful you are. c'mon, doff those caps!'

It will affect equally SAHM and working mums, I know at least 3 people worried they will have to quit their jobs as they rely on the tax credits/childcare element. 25K is not loads. These people are on too high a wage to be 'well off' but not low enough to get free school meals, rent paid etc so why shouldn't they get some help?

I read a report that said the Lib Dems were cutting from 24K but adding an allowance per additional child of 6K so that they would cut with 2 kids from 31.6K. Other reports said it was ONLY the family element that would be cut but the way Clegg is talking sounds like he wants to take average earners out of the Tc system altogether.

The thing is with all the tax rises, the people in the middle (25-37K)will be screwed if they loose alot of tax credits and face tax hikes on top.

Gradual loss is the only fair way with maybe 20% cut a year for 5 years. That allows people to plan to get used to the loss/get a job/plan for childcare etc. Sudden loss will affect those at 25K with large families that they would be better off not working..

I quickly put in our details

at 20K we would get £7200 a year
at 30K £4100
at 40K just over £1000

but I take it they take off the child tax credits to just leave the family element

I have always thought why don't they abolish Tax Credits completely and just have a means tested Child Benefit instead on a sliding scale? So poorer families get a lot more CB than more well off ones so that by the time you get to 100 or 150K you don't get any benefits?

And make the system more fair in that parents are actually better off working than claiming benefits?

I'm [shocked] at the large amounts that can be claimed in tax credits. Nearly a grand a month? There's something seriously wrong with the whole system if the state is having to support families to that extent. No wonder the economy is in such a mess.