im so anxious about threats to cut ctc...

Few people get loads of tax breaks. The guy on over £45K a year probably gets the £10 a week with 2 kids. Only those on very low incomes, or with many children and low-mid incomes get alot.

For those who think cutting TC are a good idea, do you think they should be scrapped altogether or just for a certain income bracket? Is someone more worthy of them earning 16K than 24K for example...

"chil great site, but i dont see how they take childcare into consideration ??"

It's very simple. Look for the question 'for how many children do you pay for childcare?' and put the appropriate number next to it. Then you get a box 'On average how much do you spend each week on childcare?'

Then you fill in 'yearly household income before tax'... and you get an instant calculation. If it doesn't match what you've been getting (and if you haven't told the CTC people that you pay childcare there's a good chance that it won't) then you need to tell them straight away.

'If you are working you will in most jobs be getting payrises/promotions so over the years your salary would go up and you won't need additional support.'

for more and more jobs that are available out there, this is no longer the case.

I mean, we are on 21k, which is not a whole lot of money for 6, but we are ok. However we are HA, so low rent. A family on the same that rents for £700 plus, would need the tax credits. Same with people who have childcare costs.

What would you do, interview everybody and see if they were just taking the piss, or not? That would cost more than it gives out!

HOW are you going to distinguish between a genuine need and a 'lifestyle choice'??

You can't, which means thousands of not quite vulnerable enough familes are going to suffer.

But it is true that some people do use tax credits to fund a lifestyle, just as others depend on credits to survive. The Government is trying to ensure that only those in genuine need receive tax credits and that is how it should be.

My manager who earns £45,000 a year was sat next to me filling in his tax credits renewal form. He has 2 children both at school, so no childcare costs, has just bought a new car, is back from a 2 week break in France and his wife works. Why the hell should he be entitled to benefits?

I don't really understand the ins and outs of this, but I feel we should live in a society where someone working full-time in minimum wage should be able to have kids and exist above the poverty line. AFAIK this is not the case.

FWIW I went ahead and had DD (currently 7wks) with the full knowledge that I couldn't afford her. Old fashioned I know but was for me a biological necessity.

DP is self-employed and really struggling, I was a youth worker on 14K. We both work vv hard doing jobs that make the world a better place - its a bit harsh to say we can't have kids.

I applied for CB 3 days after I got DD home, I feel no guilt I have always worked hard and paid taxes. And it doesn't go towards flat screen tvs, it goes towards food bought at Asda not Waitrose.

Thanks for clarifying Debs and I hope I didn't offend you.

Fontella. It sounds like you should be really proud of what you have achieved.
You could have sat back and not worked at all and just held out your hand. But you didnt.
You still are not.
I bet your children are very proud of you as their mother.

.....Thankyou Ronshar. I am now bawling like a baby after reading your post. It just all gets too much sometimes. I can't believe some of the holier than thou comments on this thread - some people just don't have a clue - because luckily for them they have never been where I, and many others find ourselves.

Debs, I am not sure what you mean. I didnt say that women limit themselves so others can have more.
Your cousin chose to have one, you chose to have four.
I did say why should those who chose to have none or small families subsidise those who chose to have big families.
Different thing.
In my brain anyway but that isnt always the most reliable gauge.

Ronshar My mum only had 2 children because my dad was a twat and she didn't want to have sex with him anymore. My cousin only has 1 child as he was a difficult sleeper and her hubby didn't want a newborn messing things up even further. I have 4 kids as I love kids and offer them a good upbringing. My cousin does not believe she has 'limited' herself to 1 so I can have 4.

Boiledegg1 I assume you are replying to my post as I am the only 1 who put a big figure. Out CTC is made up with extra for a 'severly disabled child'
If DS wasn't disabled then We would not be able to claim the extra disability element but then we wouldn't have to pay out so much on special diets, safety equipment and replacing items he has broken.

Yes WTC/CTC is a lifeline and many can not survive without it but there is no other viable option

Fontella. It sounds like you should be really proud of what you have achieved.
You could have sat back and not worked at all and just held out your hand. But you didnt.
You still are not.
I bet your children are very proud of you as their mother.

Dont get me started on credit

To be honest without WTC & CTC we would have lost our home 2 years ago. My dh had to wind up his previously thriving business because the banks withdrew his credit.
He had to retrain, still is, and I was heavily pregnant at the time.
So life came and bit us on the butt.

Now we are close to getting everything back again and will no longer be claiming wtc etc.
We didnt claim everything we were "entitled" (sp) to because we didnt need all of it.

I agree we can only go on our own experience of life.

It's not a case of relying on TC to 'fund a lifestyle'. It's a case of relying on it to survive and keep some form of dignity in that you are at least working and not relying solely on DSS handouts. I never asked my ex to bugger off with a younger woman and pay me nothing. I never asked my clients to cut their expenditure budgets due to the credit crunch and thereby reduce the amount of work I get from them. I never asked potential employers to discriminate against me because I've been self-employed for 15 years and am over 50.

I have worked bloody hard, through the night sometimes when the work is there, and brought up two kids on my own with bugger all input from their father. I continue to work hard, canvassing for work on a daily basis, going to college in the evenings to get a teaching qualification in the hope that (as I have a degree) I might be able to pick up a few hours teaching per week as a way of supplementing my income. A course which I have to pay for by the way. Living in a rented house, scrimping and scraping day in day out. I cannot afford to buy luxuries of any kind - cosmetics, haven't bought any new clothes for two years, haven't been to a hairdresser in 10 years - not that I care about any of that, but it can be bloody hard going sometimes - sleepless nights tossing and turning with the sheer worry of it all.

Lifestyle? Yeah right. I'd love some of those who are better off to actually experience what it is like to live like this all the time.

I agree with some of what you say ronshar, there is a lot we don't actually need.

But society is responsible to look after and protect its most vulnerable members who can't look after and provide for themselves for whatever reason.

I'm pleased the Government is finally going to do something about our welfare culture. I find it shocking that 9 out of 10 families with children receive tax credits. I don't receive any tax credits myself and that is how it should be, why should others have to subsidise my children?

I know of several people on very good incomes who use their tax credits to pay for holidays and other luxury items which is not surely not what the system was designed for. I know there are lots of people on here who say they rely on them which I find very sad. Its shocking that the majority of people now seem unable to support themselves or their families but rely on others to support them.

Lol!

Errr, you said the FSTV word!!

Most people I know on benefits have a nice tv because they have it on credit, which is so easy to get nowadays. And yes, it's only my experience, but so is yours.

When I was on IS, I would have loved a playstation 2. Couldn't have afforded it so didn't get one. Can't really see your logic there.

Oh dear I said simples.
I am really sorry

Stretch.

That is so far from what I am trying say.
I mean that as a society we should stop thinking the government is responsible for our welfare.
IT ISNT. WE ARE.

I really dont think that it is wrong to provide for your family yourself.

Do the people who shout the loudest have sky TV?
A Flat screen TV?
Two cars?
DSi?
Ipod?
iphone?
ETC.
Does anyone need those things or is it because we see others with them and want them for our selves.

I would love an ipad. Cant afford one so wont get one.
Simples.

I know that some people have not alot but some really do.
Genuine hardship should not be stigmatised but those that just want extra stuff should get it themselves.

Consider, too that children are our future (not just an expense) and those from poorer backgrounds have potentially as much to offer the world as those from affluent families. And on that basis I think it is reasonable for them to be supported if they need to be by the state.

The point I was making was that some people who work hard would still be in poverty if they had children without some support from the state. That should not mean they should remain childless in my view.

I'm saying I personally wouldn't want to live somewhere children are given very few opportunities when it isn't their fault that they have been born into a disadvantaged situation.

I am not saying I think it is morally correct to have 4 children when you know you are struggling with one.....BUT it would require some kind of fascist approach to stop people from having children. Not acceptable in any circumstances imo. Nor is it acceptable to have children living in poverty, whether it's someone's 'fault' or not.

And yes, what about those of us whose marriages didn't work out and there was nothing we could do? My older two children were conceived when I was happily with my then dp and we had the means to support them together.

Ronshar you are right.

Yes, lets go back to when we demonised children/families for being unlucky/poor etc.. What a fab idea!!!