im so anxious about threats to cut ctc...

For goodness sake - no one is going to be leaving the public sector except by redundancies. There are NO jobs to be hasd in the private sector. We are in the grip of a huge recession. People are losing their jobs left right and centre. huge areas of the private sector are decimated. People are working for half day rather than lose jobs. It's a blood bath out there. Over paid public sector workers can't just waltz out and find the private sector queuing up to hire them.

(not a granny I'm only in my 40s but it the culture in which one was brought up that I mean - if your parents grew up with rationing then they passed that on to their children and we remember their cautiousness and parsimony - waste not want not etc. Anyway on presents some people just go in for lots of them but children sometimes just have to accept they won't get much. It does them no harm. Get them to church more or teach them better values and not consumerism and they will be done the world of good - birthday present a half day with parents at a soup kitchen helping out etc. Children often want time with a parent as much as anything else anyway)

There are some changes now which will help immediately - like the expensive projects cancelled this week and such as cutting CTC for people earning larger sums; others like freezing benefits for a year or more will have a pretty immediate effect and save lots. Others are for the future - we literally can't afford the pensions time bomb. When pensions were set up by Beveridge it was on the basis that most people would draw a pension for about 2 - 3 years and then die. Now they might liver from 65 (or whatever ridiculously early age people retire in the private sector) to 95.

Free schools are a great idea. It means my child wont have to talk to working class boys and girls who are scum and don't dress in nice clothes and eat organic food. They all smoke drugs and wear baseball caps and I pay for their Sky TV as well.

If you earn over £100,000 a year the coalition should allow you to carry a taser, to taser people who shop at Lidl as well.

From what I understand the married couples tax allowance AND the raising of the income tax threshold to 10k will be designed so as not to benefit anyone earning 40k plus

I also have a child who will be affected by strikes, it will affect my family too. People forget that teachers are often parents too

Ronshar I feel that public sector workers have nothing left to lose, we have no public sympathy. The right wing press has demonised us, printing lies, damned lies and statistics.

The public sector relies on an awful lot of good will, I work on average about 75- 80 hours a week. About once a month I will run a trip, extra classes, be involved in something on a weekend. I give up weeks of my holidays ( which are great, I acknowledge that) taking students on trips. I pay for resources the school budget can't stretch to. I do this happily because i thought my work was valued, clearly it is not.

I can assure you I care about the education of children.

I just don't get what cutting pensions is going to achieve now other than causing people to leave the public sector, causing huge problems for the economy as the whole public sector comes out on strike. A few years ago the NHS pension scheme was runing at a surplus as more people were paying in than taking out.

You can't reduce the payouts on the pensions we are paying out now, they have earned that. So we are not going to see the benefits for many many years. Even those who are going to retire within the next ten years are still going to have most of their pension agreements under the old system.

As I said above I teach maths, I have a first from Oxbridge and a masters. There is more to a teacher than a degree but it is part of the package you want for teachers. It is very very difficult to recruit maths graduates into the profession. Is this going to make it any easier? As I said earlier people were tripping over themselves to offer me a job when I graduated. I thought about teaching but chased the money - as lots of young people do. I took a huge paycut to go into teaching. We need to make public sector work more attractive not less.

Benefits for presents.

Sums it all up nicely!

Children are happy to be fed, have time with mum & dad and know they are loved. It is adults who worry about the extra stuff.
Perhaps we all need to remember what is important.

Horn I wasnt having a dig at you personnally but I remember how horrible it was at school never knowing if we had a teacher etc. Our GCSE work was all over the place. I just dont want that to happen to more children.
I do feel that striking wont help. It will cost teachers sympathy in the long run.
I can understand your anger though.

I am always amazed that when people talk about the Govt funding them, they dont link it back to it really being other taxpayers funding them. I read somewhere a while ago that the top 1% of income earners fund 23% of all income taxes. I fall in that category and while I am happy to pay my taxes, it makes me angry that my 50% tax rate doesnt result in income/tax reliefs going to people who really need them but they are also going to people who want to buy presents for their kids and go on holidays. I had a happy childhood but never went on holiday (such luxuries!) and in some years didn't get a xmas present because my parents couldn't afford it.

I can't believe you grew up with rationing Xenia. I was born at the end of the 50s and I certainly can't remember it. I thought I was a similar age to you! Age, and the the fact I have 3 grown up DC and 3 more still at home are I'm sure the only thing we do have in common.

I do agree with some of your public/private sector comments.....can't believe it. I agree with Xenia.

People like allshopped just need to be returned to WWII and post war rationing standards and what a lot of us grew up with. It's a mentality change. Plenty of people who come here from abroad had very very little. Many of us had parents who grew up in the war and were used to switchign lights off to save power, cutting toothpaste open to use the last bit and many of us even in our new affluence have continued those habits. Things some see as essential aren't. People will adapt. Even things like having a TV you don't actually need. I never watch TV. I only drink tap water.

the longer post above was true - about how we can only start with the low hanging fruit, freeze benefits for a year or more etc and public sector pay. Given the rest of us int he private sector have not only had freezes but 4 day weeks and major pay cuts the public sector have no idea what it's like out there. We can only cut where lots of people are affected or it will not help bring down public expenditure.

You do get an interseting divide on these threads between those who think there is some huge rich state out there who will provide and those who think we should all mostly try to support ourselves.

Sylvanian Family - yes, you are right...we shouldn't have to rely on your children's tax payments to provide us with our pensions - we should be self-sufficient and cut our cloth according to our needs.

I think people are getting defensive and angry on here because the penny is beginning to drop that, hitherto, they have been happy for other people to foot the bill for their children and they now realise they might have to take on more responsibility.

Interesting article about the budget for free schools here

this thread is bloody awful it's like how much money we survived on as children top trumps.

and hardly anyone is moaning about benefits to children being cut. wouldn't think this was a site for parents.

any thread about the new free schools proposals? how much will that cost? lol bonkers

"Surely the duty of a Govt is to collect taxes and then spend it on the stuff a country considers necassary for soceity.
Therefore ppublic spending is actually a duty?"

It's determining what is considered 'necessary for society' that is the crux of the matter. A society like the USA has a very different view of what is necessary and should be provided for by the state than a society like Sweden. They also have radically different views on what level of personal taxation is acceptable. Whilst public spending is an obligation in most civilised societies, what that money is spent on can change according to philosphy and (crucially in our case) availability of funds.

your upbringing was different to mine!!
i couldnt imagine saying sorry girls no presents here on there bday and xmas
that is obviously just me
we are all brought up differently
my ubringing was comfortable had quite a few pressys and hols abroad etc
will stop there as dont want to dig a hole

Sorry am I stating the bleeding obvious here. They aren't frivolous but they are optional.

When I was a kid my parents were utterly skint, only dad worked on a low wage, they grew veg, made clothes and presnets, never had holidays. Basically they only did what they could afford.

Now people seem to choose a lifestyle and say right, I need the state to top me up to achieve this. We have truly lost the art of discerning wants and needs in every area of life.

dhs money is for bills and food etc and morgage etc.

i dont see presents as fivilous.

what is wrong with that tootootired!!

dhs money is all tied up with the bills etc isnt any spare

All shopped out are you being ironic?

you "need" benefits to buy pressies

Agree Riven

I am just looking at numbers - either they raise taxes or cut spending, they have to do one or the other or both. I favour more tax tbh I think as a society we should pull together to get through this bad time but that is probably just rose tinted.