im so anxious about threats to cut ctc...

xenia your comment about war babies is very generalised and as i said earlier my mum hated the rationing so over compensated after the war, she wasn't a holocaust survivor just hated not having much. (sorry just had to say)

some public sector money is funded by the lottery too, or is that classed as public?

I don't think people realise what public setor workers really do. The impact they can have on society. Also public sector workers tend to spend their money in private shops etc. It all goes round and round.

I do think that it is wise not to have too many people in the public sector as their wages come from taxes. The public sector has become too big

The only over paid public sector workers are those at the top, the rest aren't!

I work with top civil servants and they do work hard. They are very clever and very hard working. I am not in a position to judge their value for money but I have been astonished at how hard some of them work and not out of ambition but a real desire to serve the country.

"Obviously most countries want more people in the private sector than not because the private sector pays for things."

Stupidest post ever.

Sorry to hear of your loss pinotmonster

I was surprised to read how much could be saved by freezing (although not sure what proportion of the debt that is). I would be 100% happy to personally have things frozen (odd sentence!) e.g. child benefit.

BarmyArmy - "the state has no business in subsiding children"

Well when I had my 3 kids my dh and I could afford them - he died 11 weeks ago, are you suggesting my children should be left with nothing? My dh was the main breadwinner, I work part time!

When he was alive we did not qualify for tax credits, now I do, my salary is 12k.

I need mine for food and bills - as my youngest child is 6 they are going to be financially dependent on me for a long time!

Obviously most countries want more people in the private sector than not because the private sector pays for things. Under labour I think we tipped into over 50% public sector which is not sustainable.

market forces work pretty well. Teachers got rises in the past when we could not recruit enough teachers. At the moment graduates can hardly even get jobs as cleaners and we have never had so many people applying to teach and to join the army etc so we're not exactly in a time of shortage of people wanting jobs of any kind whether public or private sector so new wages can come right down in both sectors. (I've student chidlren so I can see how for many things are going).

There have indeed been some public sector cuts already. I think about 2 months ago all public sector quangos had to produce a paper to justify their existence even and of course all that is very much to the good as we cannot afford lots of things we used to take for granted.

(Most war babies did not react by wasting things although people are right that some holocaust survivors etc might have masses of tinned food in the house in case of future times of loss but I think the average British 1950s person was very used to turning off lights (just like our Queen by the way who is very careful with money), recycling clothes etc etc. )

We will know this week where some of the first cuts will be.

Apparently a freeze on benefits rises for just one year will save £4.4bn and on housing benefit, child benti and unemployment benefit.

If benefits were frozen for the 5 year parliament that saves £24.6bn but that is unlikely to be announced.

You tell 'em Electra.Go girl

I have been told that my budget will be cut by about 10%. So that will mean that I will be subsidising my teaching out of my own pocket more than I already do. They know that when they announce budget cuts.

where exactly in the public sector will they cut?

It is of course outrageous that poor people should expect the state to pay them anything if they can afford to buy presents at christmas.

Whatever happened to sending your kids out selling fucking matches?

I think we are doing exactly what the right wants, ordinary people are squabbling with each other. The public sector have suddenly become the ones to blaim for everything. We should all be working together not tearing each other apart.

My morale as a public sector worker has never ever been so low and I don't know why I bother.

The trouble is xenia school leavers aren't going to be waltzing into the public sector either. Because they will rightly think that if they chance the private sector they have a better chance of a decent standard of living without falling into the ctc brackets. They will be able to afford pensions for themselves without worrying about a right wing press out to attack them.

If they work long hours then they will eventually reap the benefits. If they take on extra pay and responsibilities they stand the chance of being recognised and rewarded. If they try to make the company work better that gets rewarded.

In the public sector there are no benefits other than what the stated salary is.

On top of that we are expected to take on extra responsibility and extra work for less. Fine you might say - but it isn't fine when the standard of care you receive drops as a result nd your health and that of your workforce suffers. Or the education quality of your employee is substandard to what you need.

just wanted to say, nothing personal, allshoppedout, I know where you are coming from and it's not easy watching the axe approaching what you thought was your guaranteed income.

I believe the pension problem is that 30-40 years ago the NHS expanded a lot and so lots of those original recruits are suddenly becoming pensioners. Also the baby boom generation is turning 60/65 at the moment (1946+65 = 2011) so the State Pension bill is going to shoot up.

as an aside my parents grew up during the war and it made my mum overstock the cupboard and be more extravagent when she could afford it. certainly didn't want us to have to live through what she did.

Allshoppedout, I'm so glad that the tax my DP and I pay is buying your kids presents. I'll remember that this xmas when I'm worrying about what to buy mine.

My DH works in the public sector and people who think its a cushy job and a easy street and that we havn't been affected are on another planet whatever the daily fail may print!

His dept has gone from over 200 to 85 in the last 2 years, he has lost all his staff and yet is still expected to produce the same work as before, he does not get paid overtime, he has not had a pay rise in the last 2 years, nor has he been able to apply for promotion as they have frozen that as they have gotten rid of so many staff, any new openings go to people whose jobs have already been cut, there is no gold plated pension the only people in the public sector who have those are the top 200 or so employees, so it really doesn't apply to the masses!

The only over paid public sector workers are those at the top, the rest aren't!

If he left the public sector and did the same job elsewhere he would get more money, but he has worked there all his life and is dedicated to what he does.

thankyou i dont have a time machine though!!

i do take things for granted - i watch tons of tv, eat ttoo much choccy etc
i am sure i am not the only one

Xenia I have been approached about 2 jobs in independent schools in the past few months. As I said well qualified maths teachers can work where they want really.

Shit coolfonz, is Farm Foods safe?