am I alone in being very heartened that the alquaida operative is not being deported?

Okay let me get this right in case I have missed something.

They came here pretending to be students having arranged with a fake school to back up their story.

So let's stop talking as though they are innocent victims. They were already criminals on that basis alone. Since they were only pretending to be students I assume they had no plans to go home after. So either they didn't expect to survive the attack or they had some other plan to break our laws.

Of course by planning a terrorist attack they have won the right to stay here forever so quite a good result for them I suppose and an inspiration to others.

Now some of you are saying that we had to obey our own laws in this. Of course we did. That part is correct. However some are saying 'isn't it good that we HAVE a law that protects terrorists from being sent home' and that is another matter entirely.

I don't even know if they would be tortured back home, but if so it wouldn't be for being Pakistani citizens as they have lots of those already. It would be because they had planned terrorists attacks. Against us yes, but not tortured for our benefit. For the protection of their own country from crazy murdering criminals.

Now I happen to think that a nation such as Pakistan has the right to pass it's own laws and enforce them as it sees fit. I personally may not like them, but I don't have to. The implication of some posts seems to be that Pakistani law is inferior to British law. That could be another thread really as it seems to reflect prejudices from the old days of the British Empire when we taught the 'uncivilised' countries how things should be done.

"Well they are like children" some would say. "Someone has to tell them what to do"

ANIMULA That is a really effective way of loosing your argument, it is all beneath me now I am walking away.

Bye bye

No i think it is DEALING with terrorism.

Actually, I just feel appalled by having resorted to that vocabulary and level of simplification. So I think I really will have to go and get on with my life.

How about this: Changing the law, because of terrorism, is a kind of "surrendering" to terrorism.

I'm using a discourse I don't really like here, but still, you must have come across that argument?

Do you consider the rights of the humans who are blown to bits by terrorists, or only the terrorists rights?

Its not a free education, we pay for it.

No. I like the Human Rights convention and am gladdened when I see evidence that I live somehere that complies with that, saddened when I see evidence to the contrary. If I have a sense of nationalism, it is built around things like NHS, free education (if you choose), and human rights stuff.

I think HR is an Ideal worth aspiring to. And you don't nibble away at it and hope no-one notices.

so many of you aren't doing ...

Then we REALLY need to look at the law. But are you in favour of a change in law to say it's ok to deport under circumstances like these?

Not caring about this chap is precisely what you should be doing, and precisely what so many of you are doing.

The law hasn't stopped him being sent to Pakistan because it feels sorry for him. He's not being sent there, and all the rest, because the law is supposed to be impartial, and it's not worth tearing everything up for just one extreme instance.

And it's awful to be having to argue this, when the law has been changed so much already under the "threat" of terrorism.

You should care because it's about the law, and therefore you, your friends, and everyone you know, as well as the ones you don't.

The idea is, the law does not get bent, broken, changed just for one case. Not just however hideous, wrong, or extreme it seems, but because it's an extreme instance.

Otherwise the law is not longer there, in the shape it was, for all the other, non-extreme, instances.

passports (and other things)

Who gives a fuck about the welfare of him? Why should I care? Really ? why should I care. it is really really fucking stupid. Why protect him ? Not in MY name thank you. And before you get personal, you DID ask.

Did he? Haven't heard that yet.

well, Clegg just announced today that second-generation biometric passports are out.

Sophable Absolutely NOT.
My young son was nearly killed on the day of 7/7 when I took him to nursery, my freind stayed to help people on the bus outside the BMA
This Bsxx should have been deported. If they want to go around and blow people up, they shoud take the consequences in their own country. My freind saw people's heads hangining off and dying on 7/7, on the bus outside the BMA. I find it a disgrace that you should post this nonsense here.

I agree with MOONDOG, these people see you and others as soft, that is one of the reasons that 7/7 occured in the first place, if we had deported these Bs who spouted hate we may not have had 7/7.
.

I'm sure you post this crap to wind people up.

Not at all BB, but then we just have to get much tougher on our border controls in future. The sooner we go to iris and fingerprint recognition passports the better.

yes, but they don't have to have claimed asylum to have a legal right not to be sent to Pakistan - just to be terrorist suspects.

Deport the fucker.

I don't actually think the key point here is the risk of torture. These men did not claim aslyum. They are foreign undesirables and have no moral right to stay in the UK. Nor should they have any legal right to be here.

There's a big difference between someone who claims asylum because they fear persecution and someone who comes in on a student visa and starts playing at terrorism.

Edam - are you prepared though to take closed evidence of no risk of torture as sufficient evidence that there's no risk?

Exactly Edam. What's to stop anyone at all who lives under a despotic regime or a strict Islamic state and just fancies coming to Britain going up the steps of the plane, then just as he's about to board dropping his trousers and baring his naked arse saying 'This is for you Mr President/Ayatollah. Fuck your government, when I get back off me holidays I'm going to plan to do some anarchic terrorist shit, and by the way I'm Gay/Christian so you might like to line up a spot of persecution/torture in readiness for my return.'

With his wife videoing it on her phone so she can post it on youtube, just to be on the safe side?

Then sitting back and thinking 'That should do the job nicely.'