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Original poster

am I alone in being very heartened that the alquaida operative is not being deported?

362 replies

Heathcliffscathy · 18/05/2010 22:11

because we absolutely should not deport anyone under any circumstance who we know will be tortured.

a victory for justice and human rights today imo.

OP posts:
Prolesworth · 18/05/2010 23:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

anonandlikeit · 18/05/2010 23:34

We are all proud to live in democratic process HOWEVER the HR are actually impeding that process on so many levels.
The state is not able to bring about sound strong convictions as the evidence gathering process has to give regard to HR & the SS cannot operate in a safe manner protecting themselves & the public without comprimising the case because the constant need to give regard to HR is at odds with covert evidence gathering. Which is not all James Bond dark clandestine stuff it is actually essential to ensure that these terrorists are stopped BEFORE they kill or jump on a plane back to a safe haven.

I wonder where this particular person would of chosen to escape to had he not been arrested... my money would be on one of the countries he now claims to be fearfuil of.

MollieO · 18/05/2010 23:33

moondog I'm not sure if sophable's comments are born from arrogance or ignorance or a mix of both .

onagar · 18/05/2010 23:33

Sophable, You said to me it's not a principle it's the law.

But you say you would not have been happy if he had been sent home in a manner consistent with our laws.

In that case you are not arguing about the law, but about your view of human rights which you presumably think should be above the law?

moondog · 18/05/2010 23:29

That's absolute shite Sophable.
By worrying about his rights, you erode your own. Don't you get that?

And how odd that you have changed your tune-earlier on your tone was that of moral superiority and a general rejoicing at his having been spared torture. Now you purport not to be worrying too much about him.

Where exactly are you coming from.I can't quite work out from which directi?n you are taking this on.

edam · 18/05/2010 23:27

"It's not a human right to be sheltered by a country you happen to be attacking." Very well said, Onager.

Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 18/05/2010 23:26

anon, i don't care so much about him as about me! if i don't maintain a democratic lawful process that protects him than I am unprotected. Am amazed that you don't get that.

OP posts:
mumblechum · 18/05/2010 23:26

I really hope that the Cons will do something to change the law. The Judges have to make stupid decisions if the law is stupid.

MollieO · 18/05/2010 23:26

sophable if this is all so easy for you then why don't you pop round to my house tomorrow and try explaining to my 5 yr old why his mummy isn't the same person that she used to be? Try explaining to him how his mummy's life will never be the same again and how that impacts on him on a daily basis. Whilst you are at it you can also explain to him how lucky he is that he still has a mummy at all and how she was one of the lucky ones who survived whilst those around her died. Fancy that?

mrsruffallo · 18/05/2010 23:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

moondog · 18/05/2010 23:25

Good points Edam

Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 18/05/2010 23:25

no of course not onagar. i made that point because further down people were referring to it as if it was a personal peccadillo of mine.

OP posts:
Ninjacat · 18/05/2010 23:24

Keep your friends close but your enemies closer

mumblechum · 18/05/2010 23:24

But sophable, he's a softy wofty puppykins, he won't come back and bomb us under a new identity, surely?

edam · 18/05/2010 23:24

I respect Shami and Liberty but I have to disagree with her profoundly here. This man and his associates came here as 'students', as far as I can see. They did not seek asylum, they came on time-limited visas. So they should have been sent home when those 'studies' were no longer necessary

What's more, any immigrant who plans to commit crime, especially murder, fgs, has chosen to give up their right to stay in this country.

If you want to be protected from torture in your home country, then you should behave yourself in the country where you claim sanctuary. Seems a reasonable exchange to me.

We live in a mad world where you have one set of judges deciding strike action is such a horrifying threat to society that it can't possibly be allowed and another lot saying 'hey, terrorists, come over here, you'll be welcome'.

anonandlikeit · 18/05/2010 23:24

Sophable don't be under any illusions that these terrorist organisations are some poor unheard minority, they have the very best in both legal representation & PR machines & like all global organisations are very good at manipulating the media.

Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 18/05/2010 23:23

we're much safer mrsR with him under surveillance here if he does pose the threat as stated.

OP posts:
moondog · 18/05/2010 23:23

Ah!
So you accept the danger these people pose.
Let's start a new industry then-corralling all the baddies in Blighty.
Heaven knows, it might work. We've no other useful skills to offer.

onagar · 18/05/2010 23:23

So if the appeal had been lost and he was deported you'd be ok with that then since it would have been within our laws?

You are ok about the ones who were deported?

MollieO · 18/05/2010 23:23

I would rather he did bomb somewhere other than where I call home, tbh. Why does this have to remain my problem?

Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 18/05/2010 23:23

ok so lord carlile on newsnight tonight was wrong when he stated that it was the law. so sorry!

where am i wailing and squalling? i'm laughing at most of the posts on here (i would cry if i didn't tbh).

OP posts:
mrsruffallo · 18/05/2010 23:22

Sophable, do you agree with my point that we are less safe with him here than not?

Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 18/05/2010 23:21

you know, deporting him doesn't make you safer! it means he can plan from abroad, get back here under different identity, or just go and bomb somewhere else (is that ok with you guys?).

OP posts:
moondog · 18/05/2010 23:21

Are you not well either?
Squawling and wailing like GS because we don't agree with you?

moondog · 18/05/2010 23:20

That's complete bollocks.
Torture (whatever your defnition) is practiced in many places in the world (including our own).

People are sent back to horrid mean countries all the time (or at least on rare occasion immigration services get their arses into gear and boot out people who weren't invited)