am I alone in being very heartened that the alquaida operative is not being deported?

No I won't

I may just use both indiscriminately and have rows with myself.

I just like the new name ;)

ooojimaflip. Why did you name change?
did you give someone a mouthful? Makes me wonder if Daftpunk is posting again under another name. If you are DP, come out, come out, wherever you are....

OOPS - the irony in my statement MAY have got lost due to the name change. I was posting as ooojimaflip before.

Coolfonz 'innocent folk' you sound just like George Bush,"I'm gonna get those folks" I thought you despised him?

Now, now, if anyone is a weirdo I don't believe it is myself or thecoalitionneedsyou, now is it? one must surely look much closer to home. We have a right to our own opinions in this area, I don't want to live in Pakistan or have terrorists imported from there either. I want all terrorists deported, not given a dole cheque and comfy bed etc., thanks.

Sorry Anarchist, Coolfonz always picks up on spelling mistakes.

When did I say I like the Pakistani state you couple of weirdos?

I would have thought Pakistan was more your scene, what with rounding up innocent folk without evidence and torturing them. You'd fit in nicely. You might even get a job there.

TheCoalitionNeedsyou. Coolfonz often says he is an anarchrist, so I'm taking his word for it. Does he sincerely believe these four men were a 'bunch of students'? Please...Mi5 may get things wrong, but not that wrong!

Yeah - if you like it so much why don't you go live there!

(errrm - I'm not sure Coofonz is TECHNICALLY an anarchist though.)

Coolfonz Have you ever thought of moving to Pakistan? I'm sure the government will welcome you and your anarchrist ways, with open arms, and while you're about it take a couple of Pakistani terrorists with you! God help this country.............

Jodevises - the court acquitted them. There is no evidence they were going to bomb anything. Not a shred of it.

The reason the last guy does not want to go back to Pakistan - all the others have and have given interviews, they are just a bunch of students - is because of the accusation made by the British state.

If the British state had got them on visa charges then they would go back, but they did not, they accused them wrongly of being involved in armed plots.

So the decision is not because there is any evidence to link him to any non-governmental armed group.

Once again Mi5 fucked up, like they did on 7-7, De Menezes etc.

jodevises - So like the current law then?

A knotty problem and no mistake. As some American President said it is better to have them in the tent pi**ing out than the other way around.

I am loath to send somebody to another country, knowing that there is a good chance he will be tortured but he has violated our good nature. I have the right not to be blown up as I ride a train or bus, as do the rest of us so if that is a notion they do not believe in, then I am afraid they must return to their own country.

I do not think the public purse should waste any more money on this person. Yes I suppose I am selfish but I work damn hard for my money why should an enemy of this country sit around getting benefit money?

I think there should be some kind of statute that says everybody who is in danger is welcome to our protection but if you violate our laws and do not respect our country then I am afraid you are going back to whatever fate awaits.

coolfonz - shame on you!
I'm not going to lecture you on the importance of information and thus why its flow is impeded and controlled by vested power interests, and the history of struggle to break that control ... and how your cynicism is an act of censorship, and a breaking faith with those who struggle ... you must know all that like a leftie catechism.

So, I'll just say - I'm busy, i'm lazy ... but interested, just about enough, but limited ... .

That said, I'm not that interested in bomb factories. I tend to see my power to ignore as an act of refusing to be mobilised into the state of paranoia that permits more authoritarian measures to be brought in. So...

Link schmink. Just shows how badly informed and out of touch about current affairs you are.

The state and their cohorts in the media create a storyline and you all follow it like kids reading Harry Potter...

"Ooh Mummy Mi5 have secret evidence they can't tell us about, ooh ooh!"

Link, Coolfonz, link ... .

My google skills aren't that good.

I see you're all up in arms about the actual bomb factory found in the UK.

The UK doesn't have enough evidence gained by regular means to convict them (partly because we don't allow most intercept evidence to be used, although the government is moving to change this).

Pakistan, however, will (going on past experience) torture terrorist suspects to get evidence out of them so that they can be convicted. Under Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights we're not allowed to deport anyone to a state where they are likely to be subjected to torture.

The UK had received assurances from Pakistan that these two would not be tortured, but they were confidential assurances and so it would be difficult to check if they were being complied with.

more here.

This still doesn't make sense to me, or add up.

So the assumption is that even though there is not enough evidence to convict in our country, Pakistan would torture them and treat them as terrorists if they are returned 'home'? Based on what - simply the suspicion?

"these criminals"

you mean the ones who were acquitted in court.

Ps: a bomb factory was uncovered in the UK this weekend.

I prefer sauvignon blanc.

Earlybird - it's because they're now terrorist suspects and Pakistan routinely tortures terrorist suspects. They weren't suspects when they arrived in the UK.

Can someone explain to me exactly why we (they) are sure they'd be tortured if deported and shipped back home? Presumably they didn't come here to escape persecution in their home country - they came here to 'study'.